Sixth form withdrawing subjects

[DecisionYesOrNo]

Need your advice. My child got admission in one of the sixth forms for her choice of subjects. They never informed us it was conditional offer based on baseline testing neither verbally not written. Last week they have taken away her 2 subject choices since she dint clear her baseline testing. She can't do those subjects at all. They are very firm. We left admissions for so many schools because of this school and now this. Is this even legal. Please suggest

It's unfortunately going to be virtually impossible to get into medicine with a 5 at GCSE in Chemistry. Most require a 7.

There are 12 Unis that don't need Chemistry A level, but they will need to retake the GCSE.
Sorry, not read the whole thread so tag me if can help more.
As a Chemistry teacher, doing A level with a 5 at GCSE is not a good idea. It's v hard, even if you got a 7+.

7 7s is enough for medicine at GCSE. But they do have to be in Maths, English Lang and 2 sciences

And do 3 A Levels. No extra points for 4 (mostly). And EPQ better as can lower required grades.

This does seem harsh but to be honest, she will find Chemistry really difficult with a 5 at GCSE. It's a tough A Level and medicine is highly competitive. She would need AAA predictions at A Level and that level of achievement with a 5 in chemistry is very unlikely. In addition to A Level requirements most medical schools require GCSEs at a certain level, usually a minimum of 6 and some specifically ask for 7-9s.

Many students struggle with EPQ. Personally I think it is because GCSE style of papers doesn't really support Level 3 EPQ.

Generally they require 6 minimum for a level so that might be doing your dc a favour. Odd that they started her first though

She will not pass a level chem with a 5 at GCSE. They're doing her a favour there

I am pretty sure they cannot kick her out after baseline tests? Baseline tests in our 6th Form are to see areas of weakness to inform teacher planning. Their GCSEs are what gets them onto the course. It doesn’t sound right to me. We can’t even “kick out” students who get U after U.

No, they can't. It would be an illegal exclusion and sixth formers can only be excluded on the basis of a serious breach of behaviour policy, never on the basis of ability.

@DecisionYesOrNo if she got 5 at Chemistry GCSE she is going to find the A level Chemistry really really hard. I don't know any schools that allow people to do A level Chemistry with a grade 5 at GCSE. Entry point is often a 7. What exactly did the school prospectus or website say the required grade was to do Chemistry A Level?

What was she predicted? Did you get the paper reviewed if you think she deserved much more than a 5 in her GCSE?

@DecisionYesOrNo the other question to ask is whether there was an summer bridging/prep/reading work to do to prepare for the A level, and whether your DD completed this work. Clearly school don't think she's ready to do the A levels - did they send out any prep work to be done over the summer? Even if they didn't say there would be a test?

Can you afford international fees? She will struggle to get into a UK med school with her grades and only 7 GCSEs but if you can afford the fees then lots of med schools abroad have lower entry requirements.

I think she has more than 7 GCSEs. Presumably she has English Lang as well as Eng Lit. OP didn't specify. OP also added GCSE PE later so I think that makes 8 GCSEs

It's unusual not to have a language or a humanity for GCSE; I'm not sure whether these have been omitted from the list.

She had the following GCSEs,

English Language
English Literature
Biology
Chemistry
Maths
PE
Physics
Further Maths

Is this state or independent? Do they have any department policies on the GCSE grades required for each subject to continue them at A level?

@DecisionYesOrNo I see you have had advice from the knowledgeable @mumsneedwine on this one.

So it is possible to get a med school place without chem A level, but it's harder bc fewer unis will take just biology.

I agree with everyone, taking chemistry A level with a 5 at GCSE is not a great idea. So in that respect college have done her a favour (except they shouldn;t have accepetd her in the first place to take chem). Her biology GCSE is fine tho - will the college allow her to continue with that alongside (say) maths and psych? That might make med school a possibility (maybe with a retake of chem GCSE?). Or it would also open other healthcare routes.

Would the college allow that? Or what are they saying she has to do?

@DecisionYesOrNo so many questions: what was she predicted for Chem GCSE?

Did the sixth form have that prediction information when offering her a place?

What does the prospectus say is the minimum GCSE grade she needs to do Chem A level? Did you think she was on track for that?

Was the 5 she achieved a shock (in which case get a remark of the paper) or expected (in which case she should have been studying from a book over the summer to be ready for the A level)?

Without answers it's a bit hard to understand what has happened.

Have you double-checked ALL the information you were given about the college as suggested, including online information?

I think the "remark" window has closed. And to be clear the review only looks at the marking not at the actual answers.

So, I now know more about these. My DS started tech/6th form last week and at registration a few weeks ago I understood his GCSE pass grades were sufficient. No mentions of benchmark tests. When my DD attended 6th form 3 years ago, benchmark tests were done just before half term and were based on what had been taught so far that term. I understood the point of those - if you aren’t keeping up after 6 weeks, 2 years is a struggle.

However, my son’s tests (maths and physics) were 1hr reviews of the GCSE syllabus, which he obviously hasn’t looked at since May/June (he was given a heads up though, so spent the weekend revising/cramming). He was told that not passing would mean being kicked off the courses, just as in OP’s DD’s case.

I don’t understand this - if you are required to have a 5/6 or above, and as OP’s DD has grades 7-9, surely that is all that is needed to progress to A level? Otherwise, the inference is that the govt/colleges feel that GCSEs are merely a snapshot assessment and not a measure of deeper understanding and ability to retain information long term - in which case they are not fit for purpose? In the latter case it suggests we should just dump GCSE exams, teach mots subjects to 18 and do a baccalaureate assessment where they can specialise in sciences or humanities etc and not put them through the stress of exams at 16 which are seemingly worthless?

But OP's dd only has a 5 in Chemistry. You could view it as the sixth form college giving her a second chance to prove herself in her Chemistry because a 5 alone is a very low bar to be starting from especially if the aim is medicine for which those universities which require Chemistry A level will be expecting an A. Plus taking four A levels is a substantial amount of work even if starting from a solid GCSE. If the 5 was an unrepresentative snapshot then the sixth form have given her another chance to prove herself.

@Unexpecteddrivinginstructor missed the grade 5 in chemistry 🤦🏽‍♀️

My son also hoped to study medicine until recently, but his grades ended up being 6s not the 7-9s he’d been predicted. I did a lot of research on med schools - and scrutinised their published entry criteria along with posts by admissions tutors on WIWIKAU/Facebook - and was stunned that even if you get 4 A*s at A level, they won’t accept anything less than the 7s at GCSEs (the look for 8/9s, which 99% of applicants will have).

A lot of soul searching here as to whether to waste a year resitting or to simply move on and look at other subjects he was passionate about. We opted for the latter as, fortunately, he also adores computers and physics. There are other ways to make a difference and help improve (and save) people’s lives that don’t involve medical training.

We just have to keep fingers and toes crossed that the benchmark tests went as well as he thinks they did…

GCSE results show you have the capability at that level.
But for progression to STEM A levels (& also MFLs maybe) you do actually have to know and be able to apply the content in order to build upwards on it.
Early baseline tests will show who is already floundering and gives a chance to jump courses before it is too late.

I agree with @Coruscations - if your daughter has been excluded completely, the St Olave's case is relevant but not binding. However, it sounds like she has only been excluded from two of her four subjects. The law here is unclear. I think there may be a case that offering her a place on these courses has led to your daughter acting to her own detriment by rejecting other places where she might have been allowed to study her chosen subjects, and therefore, having accepted her on the basis of her GCSE grades, they cannot now act in this way (or at least, not so soon after the start of term). However, it depends on the exact wording of the offer made.

The circumstances in the St Olaves case differ significantly, though, don’t they? This was YPs going into the second year who were not performing at the ridiculous high level required by the school - quite heinous to boot a child out a year into a course simply for not getting As, especially where there are MH/family circumstances behind lowered grades.

In the OP’s case (and my son’s), it seems that all state schools now assess in the first two weeks and if they feel the subject is not a good fit after benchmarks, they offer them alternative courses. They don’t boot them out, they just withdraw a place on specific A Level subjects as soon as it becomes clear that it may be an issue. This would likely have happened at each of the other colleges OP applied to if the test results had been the same. (Have checked with friends with YPs at other local colleges and they’ve been assessed this way too.) ie. Not the same scenario so I’d be surprised if the St Olave’s ruling is relevant.