Sixth form withdrawing subjects

[DecisionYesOrNo]

Need your advice. My child got admission in one of the sixth forms for her choice of subjects. They never informed us it was conditional offer based on baseline testing neither verbally not written. Last week they have taken away her 2 subject choices since she dint clear her baseline testing. She can't do those subjects at all. They are very firm. We left admissions for so many schools because of this school and now this. Is this even legal. Please suggest

By baseline testing, do you mean progress/aptitude tests since she started? At my son’s 6th form they are very clear that every YP is on probation until half term, and that the first 2 weeks are taster weeks, during which a YP can change their options and/or they can be advise to change courses due to ability.

It sounds to me as though 4 A levels is too much and she is not coping/keeping up to date with the work/performing at the required standard but they’ve not communicated this well enough? Would they let her keep one of them and continue with 3? In many subjects there is a huge jump in difficulty and quantity - which I am sure you are aware. It’s why all the colleges near me will not let you do a 4th subject unless it is further maths to complement Maths A level.

I would speak to the college to understand exactly how she has performed in the baseline tests, whether their significance was communicated to your DC (after all, they may not have revised etc not realising they were really important to being allowed to continue etc), and whether there is wriggle room to do just drop one of the A Levels.

You are expecting too much of her OP.

There are loads of medical courses that don't require chemistry, so I would ditch that, but make sure she does biology.

Also, you keep giving excuses for why she didn't do so well at GCSE, but she will be up against kids who get level 9's in everything AND do a sport to national level AND went to a shit school and/or had shit teachers. It is so competitive. They won't give the sport a second glance on uni applications - in fact you'll just be wasting space where you could say something more relevant. The only thing worth writing about on personal statements for uni nowadays, is stuff that relates to her chosen subject, so for medicine - volunteer work with people with disabilites/illnesses, working in a care home/hospice, working in a pharmacy, wider reading about medicine, caring for a loved one through an illness etc.

Has she thought about radiography? I would say her grades/academic ability is spot on for that. I taught chemistry A-level for years, so have a fair idea of what A-level grades (and therefore what subject/uni) kids end up getting. Another possibility with those grades is nursing. I've taught a couple of kids who got ~L6 chemistry at GCSE, then grade B/ C at A-level, and went on to do nursing.

Astonished they let her do chemistry with a grade 5. DD's 6th from insisted on a minimum 6 for any A level except for sciences and maths which had to be a 7 - she struggled a bit with chemistry even with an 8 at GCSE. Honestly it's one of the hardest A levels and you've either got an aptitude for it or you haven't. The school may well be doing her a kindness by allowing her to change at this stage

Also medicine is so so tough to get a place on... honestly. DD has just gone through the uni application process. Her friend got all 8s and 9s and GCSE and was predicted A* AA for A levels but had a problem with the UCAT test and only got one offer. She saw others with similar grades rejected completely. Your DD's grades are good but in the world of people applying for medicine they are not that good and that 5 in chemistry would scream at them - sorry to be so blunt but it is worth talking to your DD about other careers though universities may consider mitigating circumstances.

What sort of school is it - if it's private or academy they may well come under different rules. DD transferred to a grammar for 6th form and they absolutely did chuck people off courses although to be fair not before they'd given them lots of support and help to up their performance it certainly wasn't after 2 weeks.

Good luck I hope you can work something out

Sports science might be a great option for her? Then she could go onto do a masters in physio or sports psychology

Yes, she doesn’t need more than 3 A levels for medicine. But she will need bio and chem. however, if she is struggling in the first few weeks of A Levels, it does suggest med school will be challenging. Better to find this out now and let her choose A levels she enjoys and can breeze through.

And, as PPs say, universities could care less about extra curricular now. The replacement of the personal statement with the three questions on the UCAS application form from next year will make this even more the case. They only care about the students’ passion and commitment to the subject they are applying to study. ECAs are often/now seen as a privilege of middle class income so are now actively ignored because equally gifted kids from less privileged backgrounds do not have access to these things.

Please have her look at this site

https://www.healthcareers.nhs.uk

she needs to explore the range of professions and opportunities within the NHS - looking at Medicine is great but all potential medical students need a plan b!

even with AAA star some still don’t get in - if her heart is set on medicine she needs to explore back ups

Sorry I missed your post about your DD's swimming - wow she must be really good.

I have a cousin who takes part in a sport at an international level which included a lot of travel, and training and also having to do promotions for his sponsors. (he's still very cross as he missed out on Olympic qualifier by a few points) The university absolutely did take it into account when he applied though it wasn't for medicine.

My DD did Biology but no Chemistry at A-level and applied to med school this year - most med schools seem to prefer Chemistry over Biology, there are a few that take Biology only but literally only 3-4 outside London (and not sure about London), and she'd need to get an outstanding UCAT score, interview etc. (DD managed to get an offer but there aren't may options)
Also watch out for the "take Chemistry in a year at college afterwards", because some of the med schools we spoke to would only look at A-levels taken in one sitting.
Really sorry for your daughter that this has happened 💐

The dcs i know who got into med school did nothing but academic work and hospital volunteering since befroe GCSES.

No medical school would give a lesser offer because of her swimming.

The idea of 4 hard A levels plus 5 hours swim training a day is an insane amount of pressure.

My DC has just started chemistry a level and they had a test last week. It was marked out of 26 and they were told anyone who got less than 15 needed to switch subjects.

As many have said it is a hard subject at a level so I am guessing this is why the school are being pretty strict.

Hopefully you can work something out - maybe suggest you will ge her tutoring to cover what went wrong with her gcse - as you mentioned there were issues.

Correction to my post above. DD had to have a 7 for any subject she wanted to do A levels in and 8s for sciences and at least 6 more GCSEs at grade 6 or above. A grade 5 would not have been entertained!!

Yes she has already started tutoring on Chemistry.

She can do medicine or anything she wants to and what interests her be professional swimming, modelling, economics, art anything. The concern is the unfair school practice. If this would have been informed to us we won't mind but this came without any warning.

I think the school may have done you a favour here. Chem A level is the hardest science A level and anyone with a 5 is going to find it near impossible to get a good A level grade. The science A Levels are so fast paced, particularly Chem. I can’t see how a student could keep up even with tutoring on the side to help with knowledge gaps.

I don’t want to sound harsh, but I think it would be a good idea to start talking to your DD about different career options. Your DD has good GCSE grades but not excellent ones and not that many either. Whilst we want our kids to be able to do anything they want when they grow up, we must guide them through realistic options. Those applying to med school these days will have 10 or 11 GCSE’s at grades 8 and above and straight A’s in their A Levels. Your DD’s GCSE’s don’t suggest that she will achieve A’s in her A-levels, particularly in such difficult subjects.

Whilst this false start is far from ideal, I’d make the best of it if I were you and use it as an opportunity to discuss alternatives with the school and your DD. It is much better for the school to raise this now than your DD have a torturous 2 years of struggles.

Less than an 8! You do realise a 7 is an A. 8 or preferably 9 for medicine yes but not simply to study a subject.

OP's daughter only got a 5 though, the original post was a typo.

OP there is a lot of bad advice on this thread and myths about what grades you need to get into med school that always fly around when anyone mentions medicine on MN. Head for the medicine threads and get your DD to speak to admissions teams for better advice. The knowledgeable poster I mentioned previously is something like @mumneedswine (which you probably will if your DD is applying to med school 😂).

The advice about not taking chemistry A level with only a grade 5 at GCSE is good advice though. You can go to med school without chemistry A level but not if you get a C in chemistry… Consider carefully if your DD will be able to catch up in the subject. It might be better to concentrate on getting top grades in biology, maths and psychology.

Also, applying for medicine is time consuming with work experience, preparing for interviews and aptitude tests, especially if your DD is continuing to train in her sport. Taking 4 A levels is often detrimental to applying for medicine and confers no advantages when applying. Better to concentrate on getting 3 good grades.

I thought this as well. They’d never fill sixth forms in a lot of areas if they only accepted 8 or 9’s for A level subjects. Isn’t it something like 22% of grades awarded are 7-9 at gcse? I understand why subjects such as science and maths set A level entry requirements higher than other subjects though.

Some Universities stipulate Biology or Chemistry A level for medicine.

A huge amount of support is needed from colleges during the medicine application. If her college has given up on her maybe she would be better finding another one.

Medicine is a long game plan for many students.

If she is passionate about medicine as a career that is a huge plus.

4 A levels are not needed. My DC did 4 and we encouraged him to drop one but he didn’t/would not. Luckily he came to us in March 2023 saying he was struggling and we were able to step in and pay a few grand on revision courses that Easter break and he got the A star and A’s in his summer A level exams.

My advice, choose the medicine degree that is the right format. My DC is doing a hands on placement medicine degree from year 1. He couldn’t wait to get away from just lectures.

Do not let people put you off helping your DD achieve her goals. It takes a lot of support and organising and in our case a few thousand pounds on revision courses but it can be done.

Good luck.

Your DD got no more than 44% in her gcse Chemistry. Was she studying all Summer to
improve her knowledge? If so, maybe she could do a past GCSE paper to see if her knowledge has improved since June.

Good luck op. Hope you find another placement for her.

I agree that @mumsneedwine might be able to recommend some med schools which might consider her. They do not all require Chemistry but most require Chemistry or Biology, many require both. They also do not all require amazing GCSEs, some have very few requirements in that respect. She will though need a very good understanding of Chemistry to get through the course. @prh47bridge is an expert in admissions and he might be able to advise where you stand.

Having said that I think doing Bio and Chem with a shaky foundation in Chem would not be a good idea. I would propose to them that she drops Chemistry, studies three A levels (Maths, Bio, Psych) and perhaps studies Chem GCSE in her own time. Generally it is A level resits Universities are less keen on, not GCSE, however now A level resits are often accepted. They might also not be too concerned about her sitting Chemistry A level in a year out, especially if she has high grades in the other three subjects, demonstrating she is capable of study at that level and intensity.

There may be other routes into medicine for the OP's daughter depending on her particular circumstances eg

https://courses.leeds.ac.uk/i900/gateway-year-to-medicine-mbchb#en