How to motivate Y10 child with no ambition

[Moneypennywise]

My partner has his daughter EOW and 50% of school hols but has limited contact in between (her choice). She has just started Y10 and is apparently expecting to get a 4 for maths. Her subject choices also seem pretty random and have already eliminated many options/pathways (combined science, art, Spanish, media studies, drama) - apparently she hadn’t received any advice on subject choices even though she could have done say, computer science, triple science etc. She says she wants to go into film studies but doesn’t show any particular passion or aptitude (e.g. building a portfolio).

I’ve bought her maths revision guides and workbooks to try and support her study. I’ve even offered to tutor her in maths to help pull up her grades (her mum isn’t good at maths and doesn’t take an interest in her studies, and she absolutely refuses help from her dad). She’s made half-hearted attempts to do the maths work but is well behind schedule and instead spends excessive amounts of time on TikTok etc. I’m torn between just giving up on her but I feel like it’s not too late to do something before she permanently closes off even more options. She seems willing to cut off her nose to spite her face (e.g. saying she’d rather fail than have me take credit for her doing well in maths) and apparently she’d rather stack shelves than study harder for a better-paying job (or at least more choices).

Any Y9/10/11 parents with advice on how to motivate or talk some sense into her? Is this a lost cause? I know it’s really her parents’ responsibility but I feel like I’m watching a car crash in slow motion.

Hopefully she begins to get motivated but I’m sorry you need to relax- she may have an interest in film studies but not be running to do the associated work. Were you into study as a teen? Some people really aren’t and while obviously it’s better she starts getting down to it you can’t study for her! There’s no such thing as a lost cause, even if she doesn’t do well in exams she has endless paths open to her. I think you can nudge/ help but extra maths books etc are pointless, she has the material from school.

Triple science and computer science may not be appropriate for a student expecting a 4/5 grade in maths.
You say 'no guidance on options', but presumably your DH discussed things with her?
Is it low ambition, or just a not very academic child who hasn't found their thing yet?

You need to discuss with her parent. Where is her dad in all this?

If your DP gave her no guidance there's nothing to be done now about the GCSE choices. If your DP isn't encouraging her to study it'll be unlikely she'll listen to you.

I'd focus on supporting her generally but accept her how she is. She has said she doesn't want your help - respect her.

Agree with the others.

If she's looking at a 4 in maths triple science and computer science are not appropriate.

Most schools for GCSEs options put students on a "pathway" - so students who are u likely to do well at gcse might also do entry levels and BTECs alongside GCSEs, others will be allowed to choose triple.

It's a rare school that lets students just "choose" most are strongly guided into subjects they will perform well at gcse in. No school wants bad gcse results.

Very few y9/10/11 students are self motivated to study. Some students have a strong routine of homework and possibly tutoring that their parents enforce and help with. In year 11 more do study due to panic.

If you are setting homework and tasks and she's doing even some of them she is more motivated than most.

She is not interested and probably won't get any mire interested until she hits year 11 and realises her choices are limited as she won't get the score needed. There are many kids like this. I think if you were her parent I would be encouraging you to continue to try and help but it will likely only lead to resentment. Her dad should be pushing her to work not you.

She wants to get into film studies…why computer science and stressed about maths! The more you push the worse it’ll get. Drama and media studies sound great. My DD is a drama kid. Just passed her other classes and hers were random classes of things she just liked. She topped drama. Now at a performance school and in the top of that. They do filming at this school too and she has found she loved that. These schools go on audition basis and not on school results. I’d encourage her with film editing or something like - even tik toks tell her how great her creativity is etc. My other kid is year 10 and I’m following the same path only this one has no idea what she wants to do. No pressure from is. Some kids find their path and drive a little later when they get an idea of what they want to do.

I would investigate (or rather get your DH to) 6th form & college options and grade requirements.
If something takes her fancy she will be more motivated to meet those requirements.

You sound completely misguided about what a student with her predicted grades should be studying, so firstly, chill out and stop pushing. You don't really know what you're talking about.

Don't try to 'motivate' her, just be kind, supportive and caring and let her find her own motivation.

How’s your relationship generally?
it’s kind of you to care and want to help but it might be that you’re not the right person and you might be ovwr stepping in her mind.

you can encourage but you can’t force it. If she doesn’t reach her potential with her GCSEs she will be ok, plenty of people revisit things when they’re older

One other thing I'd say is that with secondary kids (and everyone really) lack of motivation and procrastination often comes from fear of failure. 'May as well not try as I'll fail anyway' sort of attitude. So I'd try to increase her confidence.

Building a film portfolio??! She's in y10! Those choices seem fine - very similar to what is offered at our school. Triple science is encouraged for those who are more academic but it isn't suitable for all. My DD is academic but not into STEM and she chose not to do triple science, she still has at least one lesson of it a day which is more than enough if you're not keen!

Honestly, drop the pressure. I don't think it's good to ask children to make decisions on their entire futures at 14 picking options - they'll pick things they enjoy and they'll still have choices. If they didn't enjoy science enough to go into triple science now, chances are they're not going to decide to aim for medicine in a year or two.

I think your job here is to be her friend. I think if you can foster friendship and be supportive you can maybe glean what makes her happy and motivated. Then, you can gently support on to the path she wants to go on. If she fails her GCSEs she can retake, it's not the end of the world. But you can't make her want to do the work. Only support her to find her way.

Why are you focusing on Maths? If she's only with you EOW can't you find an art class, photography class or a drama club you can go to together to show you support her and want to encourage her education in subjects she's interested in?

This is a matter for her parents, not her step. The only issue I see is a 4 for the maths because that may shut down options for her. For that, if you really care, I'd offer to pay for a tutor. The rest, keep stum.

Yeh I agree with others - CS and triple science are not for everyone and very likely not for her if she is looking at a 4 in maths. Those are not necessarily "better" choices than drama and Spanish. Presumably she chose subjects she enjoyed and felt she was good at, and she has closed no more pathways with them than with any other choices - without art GCSE you cannot really do the A level for example, so if she'd taken CS instead that pathway would be closed.

I think you need to model support and a welcoming home with somewhere for her to study and then back off and leave it to her parents.

Other than no history or geography, those look like a totally normal set of options.

I think it could be useful to tutor a child expecting a 4 in maths (to ensure they do get the 4 if nothing else!). However it won't be useful if she doesn't engage or she resents you being the one to tutor her. This very much is one that you have to let her work out whether she wants to do extra work or not. If she's keeping up fine with maths at school, she may not.

Other than that, your view that her options are poor seems to translate as "she didn't do the options I think she should have done". You sound very controlling, even if you were the parent, never mind the step parent with fairly limited contact. It's quite normal for Year 10 students not to really know what they want to do later on and do not be interested in doing more work than that set by school. I'm assuming here she is doing the work set by school? Or that it's actually too early in term to tell.

@RosesAndHellebores That is precisely my concern about maths - she’s expecting to do well in art, drama and media studies but if she does poorly in maths, she will have fewer choices of courses at uni.

@BurbageBrook She started out in the top set for maths in Year 7-8 and dropped in Year 9 so clearly she is capable of better but has somehow not kept up.

@FoxtrotOscarKindaDay I firmly believe that with the right support and lots of practice, a child can improve their results. Maths is so important in life, it is too early for someone at 14 to just give up trying to have a better attitude and relationship with it. But maybe I’m just a product of my upbringing (not in the UK).

@stayathomer @CocoPlum I agree it’s too early for her to be putting together a portfolio for films school but I would have thought that a teenager who claims to have an interest in a specific area would actually do things which reflect that interest in some way (hobbies, clubs, little projects). My (younger) DC have their own pet projects and spend hours working on them without any prompting/input from me and I can see them honing their skills without even being aware that’s what they’re doing.

@unkownone That’s helpful to know that your daughter has found her niche and is thriving. Did her secondary school help nurture or facilitate opportunities for her to pursue her interest?

@TeenToTwenties @Octavia64 I agree she’s definitely doesn’t have the interest or aptitude for medicine but she did meet the criteria for those subjects so evidently the school thinks she has sufficient aptitude. From what little I’ve heard, her mum seems quite uninterested/disengaged (hates being in the UK, wants to relocate to her home country asap) and my DP doesn’t have much influence. Neither of her parents had taken her through her options based on her current subjects/ trajectory so I did the research and talked her and DP through likely A-level options. I’m not sure how much of it actually registered with her.

@bergamotorange @User364837 I have an okay relationship with her, she probably listens to me more than she does her dad, but I don’t live with him and have my own DC so I don’t see her for weeks sometimes unless I make a special effort (which I could do if she wanted maths tutoring).

@Moneypennywise As long as she passes maths, will uni choices for humanities/arts really be impacted by having a 4 not e.g. a 6?
Can you evidence that for her?

That’s precisely the issue - the fact that she’s dropped both history and geography (on top of triple science and computer science) demonstrates that she’s not been given any guidance (she’s said as much hersef). If 14-year olds can’t be trusted to decide their career paths, then they need to be steered so that they don’t prematurely shut off possible options. It’s not being controlling - if she had been in a different school, she wouldn’t have been given the option to drop so many core subjects in the first place.

I made the offer to tutor her, but said that it’s up to her, no pressure. I totally agree it has to be something she wants for herself.

I’ve not looked into arts/humanities courses but if she can improve her maths to at least a 6, she will keep more options open for more uni courses. I guess the question is whether to leave it to her to close off those options by default.

With uni courses:

If she wants to do a science or maths university course she needs to do science or maths a levels.

Double science is fine for science a levels - she'll have a bit more of a step up than if she did triple but it's possible and many many people do it.

Even if she got a 6 in maths she wouldn't be recommended to do maths a level - it's really for those who got 8s or 9s, 7s at push.

So she won't have the GCSEs she needs to do a maths degree or a physics degree (because they usually want maths a level for that as well).

But she could very much still do biology (easily) or chemistry (slightly less easily) a level.

The a level route that she's closing off is the maths/physics one and honestly even if she got a 6 in maths this would not be a recommended route.

You do seem to be over-reacting to what is a perfectly normal set of GCSEs. As long as she passes maths (4 or above) then she's fine for uni.

What difference would having history/geography make? Genuine question. What options is she limiting?

As for triple science and computer science - in many schools (including my daughter's school) you cannot choose triple science unless you're in top sets. A child who is predicted 4 in maths is likely to struggle in physics and probably chemistry as well as in computer science. Forcing her to take triple science (if that's even an option) and computer science is just setting her up to get poor GCSEs.

Her choices seem to be sensible if she's predicted to do well in them.

Why are you being so pushy with her? She's not your child. Be supportive rather than pushy.

her options look great if that's what she's interested in. Combined science won't limit her at all. It would have been good if she'd picked History or Geography but many school don't suggest that now anyway. just encourage her to work as hard as she can.

@Moneypennywise while history and geography are great GCSE subjects, they are not for everyone. None of my DC took both of them and none feel they closed off any avenues they wanted to pursue.

History A level for sure can be taken with out the GCSE anyway. Maybe not geography – but sounds as tho she is not interested in that?

None of my DC took art so they closed off that avenue – but fine by them. Your DSD has taken art so maybe she likes and is good at it? I see she also does Spanish – certainly if Spanish A level is a possibility, the GCSE is pretty essential. So that’s all good.

For my DC at least triple science or not was decided for them. So on that basis, my DD, for example, failed (according to your view) to “keep her options open” as she also dropped CS and history, and had no choice about triple. She got a first at uni tho so it’s worked out OK. The thing is, GCSE choices will close options. All students take the compulsories anyway. I am for sure in favour of a broad education at GCSE level but some narrowing is unavoidable.

Gaining a 4 in maths is fine for most non-science courses at most unis btw. Yes there are some that ask for a 6 for all courses – but they are the very popular ones that ask for AAA at A level so may not be on the table anyway? Apologies if I am wrong there but someone hoping to gain a 4 in maths is probably not going to be aiming for Warwick or Oxford. And that’s totally fine.