Sen 11+ application - extra time not given

[Nobodyknew2022]

My son sat the 11+ on 4/9, but only asked me tonight why they didn’t get the extra time they were supposed to in the exam.

I’ve emailed the school to ask about this - the letter from them said he would get 25% extra time in maths, vr and English. There were 4x 30 minute tests - so should have had 37.5mins in each.

Does anyone have any idea what would happen in this situation. He obviously doesn’t want to have to sit the exam again, but also I don’t want him to suffer for not having the extra marks that extra time could have gained him.

@Prh47bridge - i hope it’s ok to tag you in, I’ve seen you give great advice in the past.

Hi, my DD had the same at one of the schools she sat for. I was advised that if she didn't pass/wasn't offered a place we could then appeal and mention it in the appeal. I was a bit peeved as it unsettled her (she is very rule driven/doesn't find it easy to deviate from a plan so it felt like quite a disadvantage) and it was one of the factors that made us decide against that school.

@MeanLeanRunnerbean - I’m sorry to hear that. It’s not a great situation, is it? And appealing is stressful and time consuming. How did you find out that your daughter didn’t get the extra time? Were the school apologetic about the mistake? I hope the school they ended up in was a good one for them. 🤞

I’d like to hope his performance wasn’t affected… but I know he’ll have been listening to the other kids being told the get the extra time and waiting to be told he would … then wondering why he wasn’t… so it may well have impacted!

We only have a choice of two grammar schools and this should have been the easier back up one, though may not be this year with the vat issues causing double the number of applicants. I just hope this timing issue doesn’t totally ruin the chances.

You will have a strong case for appeal. My friend successfully appealed several years ago when her dyslexic daughter didn't get 25% extra time. You would need to also have evidence from school about his general levels, but serious case of them fcking up.

I would contact the school though, as have they realised they didn't give him the extra time? You need to get it logged as an issue now while it's fresh in peoples minds.

Was he in the exam hall with the other children or in a separate area? When I administered 11+ for a child who gets extra time it was done in a separate room as the main exam is done via a sound track which is played and has set 30min intervals so can’t be adjusted. Could it be all the additional time kids were together and therefore he didn’t realise he did have the extra time, just everyone he saw did?

if not, to be honest, it would put me off sending him to this school. If they can’t be bothered to get this right now, how good will they be at making adjustments for his SEN in the classroom and for his GCSEs and so on? Wouldn’t fill me with confidence.

Yes, it is absolutely fine to tag me.

There are no hard and fast rules in this situation. The school could allow him to sit the tests again, giving him the correct time allowance, but this is unlikely. They could adjust his scores in an attempt to reflect what he would have got had he been allowed the extra time. Or they could simply do nothing, in which case you will have a good case for appeal. If they end up making you appeal, you need to make a case that your son would have got a high enough score to get in if they had given him the promised extra time in the tests. You should also try to identify ways in which he will be disadvantaged if he isn't admitted as that will help your case.

Thanks so much for the replies. @modgepodge - I’ve emailed the school, but am stressing out as they obv won’t be in touch until tmrw at the earliest.

He sat the exams on a quieter day with a - smaller cohort and room. (Great!) He was originally given an afternoon appt 1.30-4 and then that was switched to a morning one 8.30-11.15. I’m kicking myself now that perhaps I should have realised that the extra 15mins wasn’t long enough for the extra 25%, but it was an incredibly stressful time applying and I had to contact them to ask if that meant he’d get the extra 25% and if so in what subjects, which they then apologised for not making this clear and attached the letter as below.

In the room they were in they were told ‘you have 30 minutes for the test. 1 boy was told he had 1 min extra and another that he’d have 2 mins, so I think he would definitely have known if he had an extra 7.5 mins. But I definitely queried that yesterday as I had a horrible fear of contacting the school and them confirming he did get the extra time.

@prh47bridge - thanks so much for your help. I’m glad he’s unlikely to be asked to sit the test again, as it was stressful enough the first time around. I also believe their extra day for applicants who were ill is tmrw! So no time for me to prepare him - and probably no time for them to make arrangements for him to sit it either.

My real hope is that he’ll have performed well enough to get accepted anyway, but this is a bumper year for applications with the VAT issue - which is partly my worry, as we were planning independent schools as a back up, but that’s not an option now. It makes me a bit more sympathetic towards the school, as if they usually have 3000 applicants and this year had 5000 then it’s a grim job for them to deal with them all!!

We already had worries about him getting in as there are lots of rumours of cheating - luckily they change the comprehension questions between sittings, but many kids apparently knew the maths and vr questions in advance. So this is just an extra concern now!

The school only mark the top ranked candidates English papers, so we’ll have to see if he gets into that cohort I guess… if not would we appeal at that stage, or when places are announced in March?

Yeah, it didn't create a good first impression! It sounds like the same sort of set up that you had; DD was in a room with a few other kids not in the main hall, some on a little extra time, others on more. She realized she hadn't had extra time once she was sent off for break and all the kids from the main room were coming out at the same time. She's not the sort of child who would be able to speak up and say something wasn't right so it stressed her out a bit which felt unfair as she'd been looking forward to the experience.

The school were apologetic (after briefly trying to say DD was mistaken) but it was also a bit meh, kind of "secondary school is full of unpredictability and some children will turn up having not had breakfast or having a bad night's sleep so she won't be the only one at a disadvantage" which was a bit 🙄 but said with good intentions.

She was fortunate and passed the exam for both schools she sat for and when she was trying to decide between them this was on my mind and I did encourage her towards the other school which was well organized and had clearly thought through in terms of SEN provision. She's only a week in but loving it so far.

@MeanLeanRunnerbean - thanks, that’s useful to know. What a stressful thing to happen. Then they’re wondering why they didn’t get the extra time and worrying if they should say something… it can’t help but impact their performance!

I'm really glad that you had a better option for schooling and that it’s worked out well for your daughter. ☺️

The school have replied so far just saying that they’ll look into it… if they say he did have the extra time I don’t know how we’ll argue against that?! But hopefully the truth will come out. 🤞

We had to argue for any additional accommodations at all initially, as the school’s policy is that private reports don’t carry any weight with them… but with a 2 year + waiting list for nhs assessments and a kid that is falling apart with stress, what are you supposed to do?

it makes me worried it’s not the right school, but it’s meant to be one of the best in the area. 😥

@prh47bridge - well it’s a worse outcome than I could have predicted. The school have replied saying the letter they sent on 12th July was a mistake.

Surely this can’t be an acceptable response/outcome? All of our preparations, (since their letter confirming they’d be allowed), were based on extra timing and he was waiting to be told about it during the exams, so it was unsettling at the very least.

i had no reason to imagine that their letter of 12 July was an error as it seems quite comprehensive.

I think you have a decent argument at appeal that your son was disadvantaged. If the letter was correct, he was disadvantaged by not being given the promised additional time. If the letter was incorrect, he was disadvantaged by preparing on the understanding that he would be given additional time and then unsettled when no additional time was actually given. Also, if the letter was incorrect there may be an argument that they were wrong to deny him additional time.

Thanks @prh47bridge - that was my feeling, that either way this has gone badly wrong somewhere.

Is there anything to be done now, in response to this, or would we just have to await the outcome and appeal in March?

You can complain to the school but I doubt it will get you anywhere at this stage. I think you are almost certainly going to have to wait for the outcome and appeal.

Thanks, that’s depressing - but useful to know that I shouldn’t expect a positive outcome from complaining to them.

Goodness me, what a weak reply! I would think carefully about a school that has so little regard for children with SEN, this shows they really haven't a clue.

We did this process last year and a very well known and popular school is SW London forgot to give DD and others extra time in one paper. They then also accommodated the extra time given by giving them NO BREAK between the papers, unlike those in the main hall. We complained, dd got through anyway to the interview round but we were all DONE with them by then. Subsequent chat with their SENCO confirmed to me they didn't have a scoobie. Her current school totally got it and tan an immaculate process and its obvious from the first 3 weeks they actually care about their SEN pupils. So I would say this is a classic case of if people show you who they are, believe them! The comparison to missing breakfast again shows a total lack of understanding of kids with SEN and is borderline disclination. You would not say that to someone in a wheelchair faced with a set of stairs would you?

This is dreadful. I think they’re trying to cover up their mistake by saying their first letter was an error.

i honestly would steer clear of this school for your SEN child. If they can’t be bothered to get this right, they’re unlikely to get in class adaptations right, nor additional time for public exams. It might be one of the best in the area, but is it the best in the area for your child? Doesn’t seem like it to me.

Id be putting in a formal complaint however, regardless of whether you decide to continue perusing a place at this school and regardless of whether he passes or not.

@farfallarocks - thanks for sharing your experience. Its sad that this is a common occurrence - but making the kids miss their break (when they probably need the downtime more than most) is very unfair.

Yes, the email seems shockingly cavalier about the situation! Its not like they just forgot to hand out a pen so they had to write in pencil.

Its very hard, as my older one (also ASD) needs to move schools for sixth form and this grammar school seemed like a good bet - especially if they could both be in the same school, but their attitude towards the situation makes me worry it won't be a good fit for either of them, even if they do get in. 😥

@modgepodge - thanks, yes, that was my feeling too! That they'd made a mistake and rather than owning it and apologising (which would be fine and I'd understand) are trying to bluff and hoping I don't make a fuss. Who would we make a formal complaint to, if it comes to that?

I've sent an email back - asking how it can be a mistake, as the Ed Psych's recommendations are clear and backed up by her current school's SENCO... Also their letter doesn't just have 25% mentioned once, it says their head of learning support recommended extra time and then clarified which exams it would be for. Then I've explained how little one is disadvantaged by the situation, no matter where the error occurred - based on @prh47bridge's helpful post!

It's gutting, as we're in a situation where we have no decent local state secondaries, private would be a huge stretch financially, especially with VAT added, and they would involve a long commute of over an hour each way, plus coach fees. I have hopes of the other grammar we applied to - ironically who have a reputation for being tough, but were super accommodating about the exam arrangements... but its a long shot as 6000+ applicants for less than 200 places.

So... if we get a place here I don't feel we could turn it down, but equally would it be the right school for them?

@prh47bridge

I had an unexpected email from the school today. They said they’ve looked into it again and dc has been invited to go back to re sit all the exams (different papers) with 25% extra time.

I guess it’s a tacit admission that they made a mistake in the first place, although they haven’t said that.

It feels like a horrible idea - no revision has been done since the exam on 4th Sept; all momentum is gone; dc doesn’t want to do it - as they’ve already sat the exams once; how will these different exam papers be moderated against the rest of the cohort who sat the other papers (verbal and maths were the same for everyone, English there were 3 or 4 different texts from what I’ve heard)?

I don’t know if this means dc didn’t get into the top cohort who have their English papers marked, as the school have delayed releasing that info for around 2 weeks. 🤦‍♀️

It’s been suggested that we could ask them to re-weight the exams to add 20% extra to the marks, but is that feasible?

I’ll speak to the school tomorrow and try to find out more. 😥

I agree it seems like a tacit admission that they made a mistake, but this approach seems problematic to me for the reasons you mention. It is certainly possible to re-weight the original exam, but they might not be willing to do it and, even if they are, they might feel that an additional 20% is too much. It is a shame they've put you in this situation.

@prh47bridge - thanks. I feel I’m in a no win situation now, as if dc doesn’t get a place, they can say they offered us a solution and we didn’t take it. 😢