A-level choices

[YellowEllie13]

Not sure quite sure how much to try to sway DD or just butt out.

DD about to start 6th form. Academically capable but struggles to focus and organise herself. Did well in GCSEs by cramming mostly. I'm a bit concerned she's chosen the wrong A-levels.

In yr11 she got a new physics teacher and she quickly became one of her favourites. That was great to see. She went from being very disengaged to really enjoying her physics lessons. She got two 9s in her physics mocks, which was a big surprise and gave her confidence. In year 10 she was getting 5s/6s. She's put physics down as one of her a-level options. Thing is, she's also put down maths. She is not interested in maths. In her actual GCSEs she actually got her lowest grades for both physics and maths (she got 7s). I'm concerned she's going to be miserable and overwhelmed by the work. I think both those subjects are a big step up from GCSE.

She doesn't really know what she wants to do beyond A-level though definitely does want to go to uni.

She's had a funny journey with science. She was completely lost with chemistry in yr10. Did not have a clue. Had zero respect for her teacher. However, she revised/taught herself and came out with a very comfortable 9. Would that be a better choice if she insists on a stem subject?

Other subjects she's chosen: English literature/language and history.

Honestly just stay out of it. I know that 7 was her lowest grade but it is still an excellent grade and I think she could cope. You can give her advice though and maybe suggest Chemistry as taking 2 Sciences might be good for her if she isn't sure what else to take. And she already seems very balanced out with 2 other humanities. Also, she could always drop Maths if it proves to be too hard. Clearly she is very academically gifted and capable.

Is there a reason she's chosen Maths? Does she think it will be useful compared to Chemistry that she received a 9 in?

At our school they won’t let you do physics without maths. The two are so connected.

Thanks so much for the replies @sausageshello - really appreciated. My instinct is also saying stay out of it.

She thinks she essentially has to do maths because she really wants to do physics. I've heard it definitely can be advantageous to do maths but I am worried she'll find it difficult and boring and won't keep up. I think she's probably quite naturally capable at maths but she probably has some big gaps (her engagement with it during GCSE was low until around Easter yr11 when she upped her effort).

Yes, @Tiredalwaystired that's it. They will let her do physics without maths at her school but they strongly advise against it.

The Sixth form my DD2 is at now requires those doing any science to include maths. Mine is doing Chemistry, along side History and Geography is also having to do a Core Math Level which I think is a AS level. She got a 8 in Math gcse.

That is actually quite true with Physics and Maths being needed as a pair. It depends what her school allows I suppose. Maybe try and explain to her there is no point taking 2 subjects she is not certain she'll love just because they seem good. Could Biology and Chemistry be an option? Could take her on to medicine later as she is still not sure what she wants to do. But if she disagrees, I'd say just let her do what she wants and try not to worry too much.

Why is she doing 4? Is this one of those schools that insists? It isn't necessary.

What does she want to do beyond school? Her options are quite , for want is a better word, conflicting. This can be fine but it does suggest no real plan.

Four A levels is a heavy workload. Is she expecting to drop one? I agree with those who say maths is a good idea if taking physics. What would she be most likely to drop? No need for four for any uni course.

At Dc's sixth form if you are not taking A level maths but are taking physics you have to take core maths to support the maths content of physics. It sits between a GCSE and an A level.

I will draw your attention to the marvellous noblegiraffe who teaches maths about the potential outcomes for a grade 7 maths at GCSE and what that translates to for A level. If she doesn't love maths then your DD is really going to struggle.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/secondary/5146609-yearly-warning-not-to-take-a-level-maths-with-less-than-a-7-at-gcse

At the end of the day this is about 2 things, one doing subjects you enjoy because they are only learning 3 subjects and will do around 4 1/2 hours of each subject a week plus homework. It is also about results and where they want to go afterwards. These may not coincide with each other though. Definitely worth looking at other subjects referencing her GCSE results.

Agree with @Piggywaspushed that there’s no plan. That’s ok, but if (for example) she drops history, she’s got a random lit/lang as an outlier. Otoh it would probably open up Eng lit as a degree (tho check if she is thinking of that - sone unis may prefer Eng lit).

Few things here -
... You can't take Physics A-levels without maths. Often, if school offers Further Maths - it is recommended to take both Maths.
... She will most likely struggle with both Physics and Maths as it does get much harder at A-levels. By "struggle" - I mean if she wants to have a good A-level grade for Uni.
... If she got 9s in Chemistry (vs 7th in Physics&Maths, and not enjoying Maths) - she will do much better with taking Chemistry instead of Physics&Maths

What I'd do - is let her start with her choices. Most schools let the kids start and many will change their A-levels by the half term, as they'll realise what they are up against.
If she is generally receptive to your advice - I'd gently suggest she keeps her mind open and think if Chemistry vs Physics/Math is her best path forward.
In the end - most schools will get them to drop one subject and stay with just 3 A-levels.

BUT - Physics/Maths go together. She could drop Physics, but will not be able to drop Maths and keep Physics.
So - she'll need to think if

English, Physics, Maths

History, Physics, Maths
English, History, Maths

VS English, History, Chemistry

Are her better choices.

Thinking pragmatically - which you have to - the last combination of subjects gives her a lot of options for Uni. It has science and humanities. And builds on her strengths.

@Piggywaspushed well this is my other big concern. She doesn't want to do 4, her school don't want her do to 4, and I don't want her do to 4. But, if she drops to 3 now, I know she'll choose physics, maths and English. She'll then be in a pickle if she realises that actually maths is a nightmare and physics is really difficult and not what she thought it would be. School have allowed her to start with 4 but will be encouraging her to drop one unless she really is finding the workload manageable

Just to say, thank you all! You are all getting where I'm coming from. I wish her school did the core maths thing. I did wonder if they might let her sit in on relevant A-level maths modules - like mechanics. Just as PP has said, I'm trying to think pragmatically. DD is a wonderful kid but not especially pragmatic and quite impulsive! As little as a year ago, she only had eyes for English lit. We're all having to adjust to this seeming u-turn and knowing DD I am worried she's not grasped what a step up A-levels are. I think I will try to keep chatting about it with her but let her start with what she's chosen but be ready to make some quick changes.

@Sashya thank you and agree!

I think keeping lines of communication open is most important here- it's likely she'll figure out quickly if physics/maths are not for her and probably be able to change her options. If not, restarting Y12 is often possible if needed. I think it's important to not make her feel like she's got something to prove, and that she must stick it out with physics and maths to prove a point.

I do think doing physics on its own with two humanities type subjects would be a mistake.

I'd also add - many schools let them start with 4 and go for the first half/year with 4 - so they can get a good feel. And then they drop to 3 by (or around) spring.

Kids chose A-levels in the midst of gruelling GSCE prep. Then over the summer they relax and don't want to think about it all.

Once school starts in Sept - they start coming back to earth. And start thinking forward a bit.

Wait a few weeks - let her settle in. Then, maybe chat with her Form Teacher - or whatever you have in her school. And chat with her.
Few weeks of A-level Math may give her a taster of the level of difficulty expected.

Also - have a good look at some Uni requirements. Physics is a good, but difficult A-level. It's only really needed for hard STEM subjects (Engineering, Math, Programming, Physics) - which your daughter is unlikely to want to do.
While many other degrees would say - ANY Science A-levels.
She probably does not realise it. You can start explaining it to her, and then, maybe thinking strategically may start happening.

To clarify (DD just starting English Lit degree) that English Lang/Lit A Level is perfectly acceptable for an English Lit degree. Universities will accept either that or English Lit (and many sixth forms only offer Lang/Lit - which I imagine must be the case for OP's DC).

Ah that’s good to know thanks @redskydarknight i wasn’t sure. Does the school not offer English lit @YellowEllie13 ? I’m asking bc you say that was her big passion until recently. Friends who teach English A level all prefer the straight lit A level. But then that’s bc that’s their background

I don't know many state schools these days, tbh, that do the start on 4 and then drop thing. It is a good idea but there just isn't the staffing, sadly.

@clary it does offer lit but the blocks wouldn't allow it with the physics and maths 😬 That said, I actually think it's more English language she loves above lit now so the lit/lang combo is probably a good choice (I hope!).

Ah good. She has looked at the A level lang spec? bc it’s nothing like GCSE Eng lang. Hopefully she is aware tho.

@YellowEllie13 does the school offer either/both of Further Maths or Statistics at GCSE level? If so, that might be an option? My DD2 did 3 science A levels but not maths – she found the Further Maths and Statistics in Y12 gave her sufficient maths but weren't anything like as hard as doing the actual A level.

FWIW she now has 2 (very good) STEM degrees and is looking into PhDs so not having A level maths has not been a hindrance.

I didn't do physics but got A* in A level Chemistry, Math, Bio. From what my friends say physics is very hard compared to Chemistry and Maths at least. I found out of these Maths is by far the easiest but that can differ between students. Chemistry was just memorisation and then became easy. I heard Physics like Biology is a lot of weird application questions rather than directly testing knowledge. But if your motivated and dedicated to study yourself you can do well I'm sure.

@clary yes, she's looked in detail at the spec and had a taster lesson and I can see it plays to her strengths, possibly more so than straight lit 🤞

@thing47 that's a good thought. The school runs a GCSE further maths club after school. I will keep that idea in my back pocket for now. It's also really encouraging that it is possible to do a science without maths a-level.

We're going to spend a bit of time together tomorrow just us so I'll check in with her about it all then I think. The decision is hers but I want her to know I'm here as a sounding board.

Thanks again everyone. So appreciated x