A-level choices

[YellowEllie13]

Not sure quite sure how much to try to sway DD or just butt out.

DD about to start 6th form. Academically capable but struggles to focus and organise herself. Did well in GCSEs by cramming mostly. I'm a bit concerned she's chosen the wrong A-levels.

In yr11 she got a new physics teacher and she quickly became one of her favourites. That was great to see. She went from being very disengaged to really enjoying her physics lessons. She got two 9s in her physics mocks, which was a big surprise and gave her confidence. In year 10 she was getting 5s/6s. She's put physics down as one of her a-level options. Thing is, she's also put down maths. She is not interested in maths. In her actual GCSEs she actually got her lowest grades for both physics and maths (she got 7s). I'm concerned she's going to be miserable and overwhelmed by the work. I think both those subjects are a big step up from GCSE.

She doesn't really know what she wants to do beyond A-level though definitely does want to go to uni.

She's had a funny journey with science. She was completely lost with chemistry in yr10. Did not have a clue. Had zero respect for her teacher. However, she revised/taught herself and came out with a very comfortable 9. Would that be a better choice if she insists on a stem subject?

Other subjects she's chosen: English literature/language and history.

@Postapocalypticcowgirl I missed your message earlier. The reminder that year 12 can be repeated is a good one. Also about her not feeling she has something to prove. I'm so aware that she might think I don't think she's capable of doing maths and physics and then be determined to prove me wrong. I just feel that almost any other choice of a-levels would give her a slightly easier time and higher chance of doing really well.

I managed to broach the idea of doing chemistry a-level just now. She's having none of it. Says it was a total fluke that she did so well, just got asked the stuff she'd happened to revise.

Just to clarify, physics and maths don’t need to come as a pair. It is completely fine to do maths without physics.

Is your daughter in a private school? As it is the private schools that start with 4 A-levels and cutting to 3...
In most private schools the kids will be having conversations with their Form Tutors about their choices after they come to school next year.
And kids with her grades for Physics/Math will be strongly advised to NOT proceed. Both for the kids to avoid disappointment and to not spoil stats.

But, more importantly - Physics at A-level is hard, so is Math. And - maybe someone really solid on Math, who can teach themselves most of A-level curriculum - CAN do Physics A-Level without taking Maths. But in your daughter case - it's a recipe for disaster. And a really hard two years.

Even in top academic private schools kids are "encouraged" (pretty much told) to drop their 4th A-level by summer, unless they are doing Math and Further Math as 2 of the A-levels, or unless they are applying to the USA.

So - in your daughter's case - she'll be taking two A-levels that she is weak in. And she'll struggle to even get a B in those, with C much more likely. Why would her school do this to her? It is really their job to guide her.
It is her choice - sure. But if she suddenly decided wants to study to apply to Royal Ballet School (for e.g.) - you'd explain to her that it's not on the cards for her. I think it's the role of the parent to be honest with a child that is setting herself for failure.
They are no longer of the age where "everyone is a winner and gets a medal".

She does not need a Physics A-level as she is not likely to apply for a STEM degree anyway. While at GSCE physics is fun because it describes the world around us - it becomes a lot more abstract and mostly math by A-levels and certainly further.

This summer we went to look at several Uni Physics Depts for my DD. At one of the admissions talks one of the mothers asked the Head of Dept - "What would you advise to an applicant who likes Physics but does not like Maths?" He paused, composed himself and said - "Physics IS Maths".... (i.e. - the applicant is in a wrong place).... The applicant next to the mother did not look happy, but they needed to hear it to not make the wrong choice for them...

Despite what some say, it is possible to take physics without maths. It's not a good idea but it can be done - someone in DS2's year did it.

Thing is tho, as @Sashya says, if you don't really like maths that much (and are only doing it bc you need to) will you like physics? Probably not. If she decides she doesn't like either, she is a bit stuck.

(I don’t think it’s only private schools that start off with four A levels tho - some state schools I know push this. And anyway @YellowEllie13 has said that they school is not in favour of her DD taking four.)

@clary
It is possible to take Physics A-levels without Maths - IF you really strong at Maths and teach yourself A-level content in parallel.

However - the point of that is lost one. Not sure what Uni degree requirement this would work for????
Any hard Stem degrees will need Maths as well. And any other degrees would simply say - One science. And Chemistry or Biology would have worked just as well, but would
have been a lot easier…

At my DD school - kids who take Physics are encouraged to take Math and Further Maths - as Physics A-level need some modules that regular Math A-Level doesn't cover.
But then - most kids in her school would expect to get a A or an A*.

At our school - OP’s DD wont be allowed to take Physics/Maths with a 7 at GSCEs.

Any hard Stem degrees will need Maths as well.

Absolute piffle. Lots of medical degrees (including Cambridge's) do not require A level maths, Biosciences and biomedical science degrees of all types at the vast majority of universities will require chemistry and/or biology, but not maths.

@thing47

Medicine/biosciences degrees typically require 3 Sciences/Maths A-levels.
it is NOT Op’s daughter’s situation, Is it?

Maybe better phrasing would have been - no STEM degree will require Physics specifically with no Maths.

Or, an even better phrasing - No good degree admission will helped by poor grade on Physics - which Op’s daughter is guaranteed if she persists with Physics/ Maths or Physics (without Maths) - only to try to make a point…

And btw - your Cambridge medicine argument is disingenuous - Oxbridge medical degrees ask for Chemistry - and 2 of Maths, Biology, Physics, Further Maths…
But its a circular argument here, as you need math for Physics…. So you may be right but only at a huge stretch….
NatSci - (biosciences) at Cambs specifically start with Maths as key requirement …

But - yes - there are some Unis that have no requirements on science/math. University of Newcastle Medicine - just wants three As in any subject… Scary as it sounds.

Medicine/biosciences degrees typically require 3 Sciences/Maths A-levels.

That's not true @MMmomDD as your post shows. Quite a common A level choice for medicine is (say) bio, chemistry and something essay based like history.

But this is off topic - op's dd clearly not looking at medicine. My concern would be, as I say, the thought "I don't like maths that much but I need to do it bc xyz" will not have a good outcome.

Thanks all. To answer a couple of quick questions, she's at a normal large comprehensive. Definitely not wanting to do medicine. The school actively discourage 4 A-levels but if you get over a certain score in your GCSEs, they will let you start with 4. DD did not get this score but v close and she persuaded the head of 6th form to allow her to do the 4 subjects.

We've had another chat. She's determined to try maths and physics. Says she doesn't dislike maths but wouldn't have chosen it if it wasn't for physics. Says she really does have to do maths in case she wants to do physics at university. So I think I've got to back off now and let her give it a go. Just to be clear, it's not that I don't think she's intellectually capable of these A-levels. She's an all-rounder and if she really sets her mind to it, she could be successful with them. My worries are the workload, the catch up needed in maths, the lack of love for maths, and just generally making her 6th form journey so much harder than it needs to be.

I've hopefully got across to her that loads of kids change their choices in the first few weeks so that's totally fine and possible.

She's finally going to tackle the maths bridging work today so that'll be interesting to see how she gets on.

Thanks all for the input. It has been really helpful.

I’d leave her to try the first few weeks atm. I think the bridging work, plus the actual lessons in both math and physics may give her some better understanding. And teenagers don't particularly like listening to parents anyway.

As to ‘maybe doing a physics degree’ in Uni. If she is only taking maths because she is told she needs it for Physics - she really will not enjoy physics at Uni. And struggle.
That is she manages to get AAA - or A*AA needed to get in - with top grades needed specifically in Physics and Maths.

Its good to be an all rounder for many degrees and occupations. But for hard subjects like these two - you sort of need to be rather focused to get anywhere.
She doesn’t quite realise it, but will in time.

@MMmomDD I agree!

Sorry I meant that to do Physics, Maths is generally seen as necessary but yes you can defo do Maths without Physics!! Sorry I worded that wrong.

I thought I'd just update on this as you were all so helpful. DD started out with maths (reluctantly because she really thought she wanted to do physics), physics, English, and history.

She did not really want to do 4 and resigned herself to dropping either English or history as she was so set on physics.

After four weeks she dropped physics!
She's loving maths!! She's also really enjoying English and likes history well enough 😅

What a nice update! Thanks op. My DD has just done this U-turn on us- she was maths averse her whole life and scraped a 5 in y10 mocks. She's now aiming for a 7 in y11 mocks and really wants to do it for A Level. I feel like I'm a bit shell shocked! So happy for your DD.

How funny @Foxesandsquirrels - so like my DD! I was worried DD might struggle with maths even with her 7. But that just hasn't been the case so far. This is partly because she really likes the way her main maths teacher teaches, but also I think she's finally realised she can do maths. Confidence makes such a difference with maths I think.
Really good luck to your DD with Year 11! It's an intense year but it sounds like she's storming it.

That's really good to hear. I've heard horror stories about maths a level and I feel it depends on the type of maths you enjoy. DD finds algebra really fun and satisfying, wordy problems are her nemesis so although her school does do core maths, I think she'd struggle with that more than a level maths!
It's so weird, beg of y10 she was on a flight path to get a 2 in maths! She just really loves it now and like your DD a main thing is her confidence and her teacher tbh. We'll see, but it's great to know a 7 has been fine for your DD, as that's what mine is aiming for and I was worried if wouldn't be high enough.

What a great update!