DS1 thinks he has done badly in his GCSEs

[winterrabbit]

DS1 sat his GCSEs this year and we'll get the results next month. He missed a chunk of time in year 10 as he was excluded from school and it took us ages to find him another place. He has ADHD and really struggles with focus and behaviour. He would only revise with tutors which he ended up having pretty much every day in the lead up to his exams but only for a few hours. The exams themselves seem to go ok, or so he said at the time. No disasters where he forgot to answer half the paper although he mentioned a few were tough (Biology paper 2 for example). He finished all papers so I thought/hoped he had done ok but he casually mentioned the other day that I shouldn't get my hopes up as he thinks he did really badly and failed at least a few. Obviously I'm now super worried. He only failed one mock and scrapped by with 4 and 5s in most subjects plus a 6 in French although he did literally no revision. Surely he can't have done worse in the real exams than he did in the mocks? If he has done badly then what options are there for him? Can he resit or do you have to get certain grades to be eligible to resit, e.g. a 4 in Maths and English?

I'm so glad to read about alternative options on here as schools make you feel like they are going to fall off a cliff if they don't get 8-10 GCSEs at grade C and above.

I have one DD who is about to go to university having done very well at GCSEs and A-Levels and was always more than capable of the above, and another who couldn't even go to school with extreme anxiety, ASD, ADHD from age 11 and who has missed most of secondary school, but we hope she will be able to sit four GCSEs next year through doing home schooling.

( @MrHarleyQuin My DD2 missed y11, has 4 GCSEs at grade 3, has done 2 years in college on level 1 courses, taken a year out, and is about to return to college to do a level 2 course. EHCP helped with that. There are options.)

If he comes out with 5/6s and a couple of 7s (as predicted) would you still say not to do A-levels?

Including one or two BTECs would be a much better route for any dc with this grade profile.

I think that say 776666555 would be A level profile until you see that he needed 1-1 tutors to do any revision. That doesn't imo bode well for level of independence needed for A level work.
But maybe the OP has reason to believe things will be different.

What will be will be. Thats life. He will find a job he enjoys and will be ok.

T-level in business and administration?

DC has just done A levels, including Business. I can confirm that there is a great deal of learning required to complete the course, as well as the usual strict exam technique needed. Friends of DC have done Economics and they are all Maths whizzes. Apparently there is (as you might expect) a lot of Maths in the course (most of those students also do Maths, Further Maths or Computing).

DC did ok in their GCSEs, but the step up for A levels should not be underestimated. We've found it considerable, and the requirement for independent study is substantial.

If that's the case when why do most colleges set the entry requirements for A-level at 5s and 6s then? Two of his offers are five 5s, one is four 6s. I didn't actually come on here seeking advice as to whether to do A-levels or BTECs but options around resits/retakes. None of you can possibly know what's best for DS given his specific learning style/needs and everything at this point is pure speculation as I don't know his results and neither do you.

Op a pp said that their school or college takes people with 4s but it doesn’t help them. A friend of DD’s sat Eng lit A level with a 4 at GCSE. I doubt she got a great grade, Just bc it’s possible, doesn’t mean it’s a good plan.

Schools and colleges need bums on seats. They might take a student to sit MFL A level with a 5 - but I would say, as someone with experience in this area, a 7 at GCSE will lead to a better outcome for A level. The same is true of many other subjects. A 5/6 at GCSE MFL suggests key skills and knowledge are missing.

Most posters here are teachers or have seen dc go through A levels. Or both. We’re just trying to give the benefit of that experience.

Yes no one knows what your ds will get and I hope he has done better than he says. But it’s worth planning in case he hasn’t.

I didn't actually come on here seeking advice as to whether to do A-levels or BTECs but options around resits/retakes.

Bit of a snippy post when people have given up their time to think and reply. And you did say this in your OP:

If he has done badly then what options are there for him?

If he’s done badly, then the BTec discussion is very valid. Not because there easier, but because they fit a different style of learning that could have been the reason for poor GCSE performance.

Snippy because I am fed up with people like you telling me because he has ADHD he must be stupid and can't cope with A-levels. I disagree. I am not automatically assuming he should do B-TECs when his predictions indicate he should be ok to do A-levels. As usual, coming on a MN for advice and reassurance usually backfires.

No one is saying he is 'too stupid to do Alevels' (except you).
People are merely pointing out that if his learning style doesn't work well with GCSEs (and you yourself said he needed tutors to do any revision) then it may not bode well for A levels which requires similar skills, but enhanced.
People are suggesting you put aside your prejudices and properly look at BTECs which may suit better. You still have to be 'bright' to do well, but the learning and assessment styles are different.

Er, I have said throughout that he is bright but has ADHD. We've had several ed psych assessments which show he is very bright (98th percentile), scored 100% in his English SATs in year 6 etc. Having ADHD and learning differently to others does not mean he is not academic and can't do A-levels.

Hmmm. You’re very rude. People like me telling you he’s stupid because he has ADHD?

My post on this thread:

Why ideally A levels?
Which ones?
What other options has he even looked at? BTec Level 3 Business?

Nope, can’t see the bit where I said he was stupid because of ADHD.

The only backfiring I see here is people trying to answer your posts helpfully, and getting your rudeness in return.

You're also very rude Testina. I didn't ask for advice on whether to do A-levels and don't have to justify why to people like you! I was actually looking for parents in similar positions whose kids thought they had done ok at the time but now having a few wobbles, and what options there are for re-sits. I am not going to be grilled by complete strangers as to why I haven't considered B-TECs. Didn't ask about that and not looking for advice on B-TECs or A-levels for that matters and other peoples thoughts on how hard they are or might be for DS are irrelevant at this stage.

You have to be bright to get Distinction stars in BTECs. There can be a high level of analysis etc required. It is only you who seems to be equating bright=A levels and 'not A levels' => 'not bright.'
A different learning style may (note MAY) indicate that A levels may not work well. That is all people are saying!

DS was at a super selective and achieved all 8s and 9s in his GCSEs.

A levels were a massive shock to him - the amount of self-motivated study he had to do and the shift from 'learn this stuff and then repeat it back in the exam' to 'let's research 6 different critical views on Paradise Lost and then you weave them into an ordered argument answering a question that none of them specifically refer to'.

He was also keeping up his sport and music commitments.

His ADHD meant that managing tasks without daily deadlines was really painful. 'Do this French translation for tomorrow' - fine.
'Over the next week, prepare several responses to potential questions on these trolley problems' - almost impossible and very stressful.

Ironically luckily for him, he was the 2020 year that ended up with Teacher Assessment rather than exams. His excellent responses in class and his essays (often dictated into voice recognition software while he power-walked round the neighbourhood) meant that he ended up with his predicted grades and a place at a great university. I have NO DOUBT that he would not have achieved this if he had had to prepare for 3 revision-heavy A levels (all squashed into 2 and a half weeks and with several double exam days).

I wish I had had the insight in his post GCSE summer to guide him towards at least one course that was not graded on a summative exam.

He is SO clever, but summative exams don't suit the way his brain works.

Nobody is “grilling” you @winterrabbit

Don’t put “If he has done badly then what options are there for him?” in your OP if you don’t want people to give you options 🤷🏻‍♀️

He needs 6 ideally. If maths and or English are failed some colleges will take them but they will continue to study those GCSE's.

Classic MN poster, asks for advice, has already made her own mind up, so ignores all advice.

You've said he didn't do very well. There are varying degrees of not very well, but usually this implies below grade 4s. In which case he isn't suited to A level study.

What do you want from the thread?

I didn't say he didn't so very well. I said he felt ok about them at the time but now says he has done badly. Neither you nor I know how he has done so shut TF up.

What I want from this thread is what anyone would want - kind, respectful, helpful comments, not a lecture about what I should or should not be doing and tutting when I don't listen to your advice, as you call it.

Despite having lots to offer, I'll stfu.

Still none the wiser about what you actually want. Kindness is a two way thing.

Yes he needs a 4 to not have to resit. You can pay to resit anything if you want to.

Having ADHD and learning differently to others does not mean he is not academic and can't do A-levels.

No-one has said he isn't capable or academic. But actually yes, having ADHD and the sort of learning style that he appears to have often DOES mean that A levels are not suitable as they require a very specific style of learning - one suited to a very ordered type of person.

Someone who needs short sharp bursts, with external inputs, is better suited to exams where they are examined that way - in short sharp bursts. That's not a good thing or a bad thing. It's just sensible to plan a pathway that showcases strengths that showcases weaknesses.

Good post @titchy - no one has said your DS is stupid @winterrabbit. I agree with titchy that actually, having ADHD does not mean he is not smart, but yes, it might well mean that A levels would be a challenge.

You keep saying OP that you didn't ask for advice about A levels and BTECs but tbf to me and everyone, your Op said this:
If he has done badly then what options are there for him?
which I took to mean If he has not done very well in his GCSEs, what can he do post-16?
Apologies if that's not what you meant. But I still think you and he should look at it. You and he will know next month how he has done - and I really think it would be a good idea to look at all the options before then. If you don't need them - happy days. Just a bit of wasted time.

Hopefully we have variously answered your resit questions - you have to resit maths and Eng lang if you don't get a 4 (a 4 in Eng lit will do tho); you can resit anything else but you will probably have to pay. I know a lad that didn't do well enough to get in for sixth form and he resat the whole of year 11. No idea if they had to pay exam fees tho.

Can I reiterate that BTEC level 3 qualifications are rigorous and not easy; they just suit different learning styles. Mate of DS's did a L3 BTEC in sport science and ended up studying it at Lboro - probably one of the hardest unis to get into for that subject.

My DD did well at GCSE, not very well at A level and then did a degree with only continuous assessment, no exams, as that's often where she crashes - and she totally flew. DS2 otoh does better in a timed, pressured exam. Different things suit different people. Best to play to your strengths as far as you can.

I think it has been mentioned, but apart from Maths and Eng Lang which can be resat on November, if you want to resit anything else you have to wait to the next summer. Normally you'd want to focus on your level 3 courses rather than want to spend time resitting a random (ie not maths or English) GCSE.