GCSE computer science: Daughter was refused a place

[iloveteddies]

Hello, my daughter was refused a place, and the excuse is the course is oversubscribed. I know that very few girls applied and lots of boys, and the class is going to be mainly boys and potential 2-3 girls from what I know (not official school communication). The school is saying that a computer program selects and they cannot be biased towards the girls because that would not be fair for boys. Also to add they all have an assessment that they have to pass to be considered. My daughter passed that exam. I don't think there is a chance she is going to be given a place now,but I feel this is still unfair for girls. So many people are saying we don't have enough girls in STEM but yet schools are not enabling even the ones willing to do STEM subjects. Does anyone know if the school has to tell you what is the class composition. Does anyone have any adivce/comment. I know is not going to change it for us but I can't stay passive about it.
thanks.

If it was randomly selected surely that’s the fairest process? If there were so many applicants could they not run another class.

Randomly selected via achievement is the fairest process

If she really, really wants to do it and it's going to lead to a career or future university aspiration them appeal on that front, don't bother bringing the sex split into it.

Alternatively ask if she were to teach herself - and attended computer club after school if they run one could she sit it as an extra GCSE, even if you have to pay for it. If DD is that desperate for it she'll be self motivated enough to do that plenty of resources are available.

Both of my sons did it and even though they loved CS (one studied it at uni) it is fairly dry. You don't need GCSE CS for A level CS or even for a CS degree. At that level they are looking for maths. If she wanted to study it then I can recommend Craig n Dave on youtube who cover the whole content.

What are the alternative subjects she can take in that timetable slot?

Randomly generated is the fairest process. It would be unfair to the boys otherwise to give the girls places and then randomly select from the boys. Take it up with the school but don’t spout your sexism rubbish.

Unfortunately, they haven't got more teachers. Thanks everyone for all their comments/inputs even the not kind ones. Thanks so much for all the suggestions regarding going about in an alternative way, really appreciated.

Doubtful. There's a real shortage of Computing teachers.

Well said!!!

This doesn't sound like a sexism issue, so I wouldn't pursue that, but I think it's fine to ask what criteria was applied to the computer selection process applied and where DD came out.

Obviously, a human was involved in determining the selection criteria, so it sounds like a bit of a cop-out for the school to blame the magic computer for its mysterious determination as to which pupils were given a place on the course.

For example, was it the top x highest-scoring pupils? Or randomly selected from the pool of all pupils who passed the test? Were additional criteria applied (maths target grade, etc)? At least knowing this might help to accept that it was fairly decided or reveal something worth trying to challenge.

As PPs have said, she can still do A-level CS and can learn the GCSE content in her spare time if she's interested anyway, so it shouldn't close any doors for her.

You could ask the school if there is a waiting list in case any students drop out quickly. Your daughter might not want to move subjects if she has started another subject though.

Does the computer program select based on highest achievement in the test? It would make sense for them to select like that. Have you asked what the criteria is?

If it really is random selection there isn't a lot you can do.
If there are other criteria involved in selection I guess you may be able to argue that your daughter was disadvantaged (depending on what they are).

You daughter can probably find out who got a place in the class by posting on social media :)

What elements of the course was she most interested in? This is at least a subject where there is lots of material online that she can look at on her own.

See if there is a waiting list. Several of my DS's friends dropped it really quickly in September when they realised how dull it was. There really doesn't seem to be much programming going on even now - just learning about computer ethics and software and hardware.

Not everyone can get all their GCSE choices unfortunately. My ds didn’t get GCSE PE - it wasn’t based on merit, just time-tabling.

If your dd is disappointed, this is good opportunity to chat to her about other things she can do to progress towards a career in Computing/STEM. Resilience, flexibility and problem solving are great skills for everyone, but especially those working in tech. GCSE CS is not needed at all to go down this pathway.

I know it’s disappointing for you both. But keep your eye on the long game.

It may be worth dropping an email to school to let them know that your dd would love to do CS, should anyone change options before September. Ideally, your dd would send this email, or speak to a teacher, but an email from you wouldn’t hurt. If a place does come up, I imagine they will want to give it to a girl, so that’s in your favour.

They need to tell you how the computer program selects.

Fine if it is random but why would this need a program.

Not fine if it is a biased program against girls. For example it might look at passed data and project that boys will do better so pick boys or it might have more subtle bias by looking at factors which boys generally come out better in. I also wouldn't fine this ok.

My son's school didn't even do CS at GCSE. They only had one part time teacher so only offered it as an A level option. Doesn't hold anyone back as it's one of those subjects where you can do A level without having done GCSE and can do a CS degree without having done A level! More important is a sold Maths ability, so as long as your DD is aiming for top grades at Maths GCSE and plans to take A level Maths (again at a high grade) and/or CS at A level, then a computing degree or a computing apprenticeship remains entirely feasible.

Not a GCSE, but you can also make sure she has done the iDEA Silver Award at home to have a CS item to put on a CV. It can easily be done over a summer holiday/at weekends.

Lots of people go into computing without any qualifications in computing at all. The thing that get you a job in computing is being able to demonstrate you have skills. I know loads of self taught programmers. People who have written their own websites, apps, games etc look better to employers than those who show no iniative.

The other thing is, this time round she didn't get a place despite being a girl. But there will be future opportunities that will be available to her and not to boys.

And yes. This is only GCSE. There will be opportunities at a level and beyond that do not require computing.

Properly qualified CS teachers are like hens teeth so there is usually competition for places where it is offered , any many will be being taught by non specialist teachers . I would ask about a wait list as you are likely to get drop outs early on .

knowing the composition of the class won't help, you would need to compare it to the composition of the applicants. If 80% of the applicants were male, and 80% of the class is male, that would indicate a fair random selection procedure

Fine if it is random but why would this need a program.

Because we've moved on from someone drawing names out of a hat?

Also, given that it's just one class, a higher or lower ratio of boys to girls in the selected group compared to the sex ratio in the applicant pool doesn't necessarily indicate the process wasn't random/fair.

no, it doesn't agreed. Just saying the Op is not going to be able to judge if the system was fair by knowing the proportions in the eventual class

I agree with you OP. It's difficult to be the only girl in a class of boys so they should be trying to balance the sexes if they have enough suitable girls that want to take it. And it would be completely legal too. Given the tiny number of girls sitting this subject and pursuing it at university etc it would be a more than reasonable adjustment.

It's only going to ring alarm bells if it's very skewed e.g. 50% of applicants were girls and they only got 5% of places. However, it's quite likely there just weren't many girls applying. That might be a course of cation for OP to follow if she thinks the process was unfair - find out how many other girls applied and didn't get a place.