GCSE computer science: Daughter was refused a place

[iloveteddies]

Hello, my daughter was refused a place, and the excuse is the course is oversubscribed. I know that very few girls applied and lots of boys, and the class is going to be mainly boys and potential 2-3 girls from what I know (not official school communication). The school is saying that a computer program selects and they cannot be biased towards the girls because that would not be fair for boys. Also to add they all have an assessment that they have to pass to be considered. My daughter passed that exam. I don't think there is a chance she is going to be given a place now,but I feel this is still unfair for girls. So many people are saying we don't have enough girls in STEM but yet schools are not enabling even the ones willing to do STEM subjects. Does anyone know if the school has to tell you what is the class composition. Does anyone have any adivce/comment. I know is not going to change it for us but I can't stay passive about it.
thanks.

she is not going to get that information

Yes, absolutely boombang - I think we're on the same page - I just thought it worth mentioning in case the ratios not aligning perfectly is interpreted as evidencing a bias that might not exist!

She won't get it formally but this is the sort of thing that might well come out over social media chat. maybe it is just my DC who seem to get to know all about this sort of thing

Random allocation is fairest for all subjects. Computer Science teachers are hard to find as they will make much more working outside of education.

Luckily you don’t need CS for A-level or degree so if she’s keen she could teach herself at home although I wouldn’t recommend it as it’s pretty dry as a curriculum.

Ask to be added to the aiding list for a place in the hope that someone changes their mind and switches their GCSE. My son didn’t get one of his first choices but was offered it by the end of September but decided to stick with the subject he started instead.

There can sometimes be cases for a bit of positive discrimination. If there may be some sort of bias against one group then, other things being equal (in this case test scores), preferentially selecting from them may be justified.

In the case of CS, there's still societal sexism - it's ridiculously seen as a 'male' subject, computer clubs are more likely to be male dominated etc.

This doesnt really help the OPs DD because they won't be able to unpick whether any of that applies but it's not sexism to try to counter ingrained sexism.

Yes. IME it's usually the qualified teacher who drops out first...so many cover teachers and repetitive worksheets.

Yes I agree with you op. There aren't enough females in STEM and they should be looking for ways to make the playing field more even. Otherwise it's just talking the talk.

I would ask whether any element of the selection was based on other option subjects chosen in order to help it fit in the schools timetable. I think that it the only way it could be biased, on the basis that boys generally choose X option and by having computer science in the other option slot gives most people the ability to do both of their preferences.

If selected randomly by computer and there was a very uneven split between boys and girls applying it stands to reason statistically more boys will get in.

You other option is to see if there any other secondary schools locally with spaces who can offer the GCSEs CS and switch schools.

Move to a school that can accommodate her, if it’s CS she wishes to do at uni in the future u don’t need CS gcse or A’Level it’s maths.

Sorry but random selection is the fairest way. My ds2 missed out on doing creative imedia 2 years ago. It happens quite a lot I think.

Out of curiosity which comments do you consider not nice??? You’ve had pretty fair replies on here.

I agree OP.

This country has a huge problem of lack of women working in STEM. The school should have prioritised your daughter’s application over boys.

Consider writing to the head, and if no joy, this organisation: https://www.womeninstem.co.uk/about-women-stem/

The school’s random allocation system isn’t fair, it statistically benefits boys over girls.

Out of curiosity which comments do you consider not nice???

I'd say the 'sexism rubbish' one was unpleasant, and unjustified.

The fact that in mixed schools, very few girls do subjects such as CS and physics whereas all girls' schools will have healthy numbers wanting to do them (my DDs school had 2 sets for gcse CS) is surely due to societal sexism.

this one : Take it up with the school but don’t spout your sexism rubbish.

I agreed with you all the replies are very useful and I am very grateful

You don't need GCSE CS for A level CS or even for a CS degree. At that level they are looking for maths.

This DS school only offered ICT which we steered him away from - but he didn't need it for A-Level CS nor for degree course he's now looking at.

I'd ask about waiting list - what else has she been offered.

DC school it was pick 5 you'd be happy at and order them in preference. DD1 didn't get History because not enough people picked it so it didn't run- she did Drama instead did well enjoyed it. Unfortunately couldn't take A-level history due to lack of GCSE - but still ended up studying a history related subject at university.

They didn't run History GCSE at all?!

Some sort of random selection seems fairest, unless they do what one school I worked in did: pupils listed their GCSE choices in order of preference. In that case, the places would have gone to those who had put it highest up their preference list. (It also meant that if only a few pupils opted for a subject, the decision on whether to run it might rest on whether they'd all put it near the top or near the bottom of their list. They organised the option blocks around the students' choices, rather than setting them in advance.)

I think we have moved on from when I was at school - we were the first year where everyone could choose between CDT, art and home economics, instead of boys doing CDT and girls HomeEc. However when we got to our first CDT lesson, it became clear that all girls present had either refused to put a second choice, or had parents who had written letters emphasising their wish to do CDT. We were all put in woodwork rather than metalwork, too.

How does random allocation benefit boys?

At my DC school everyone who wanted to do it got to do it - you needed a predicted 6 in maths but they may have been flexible.
Around 50 are doing it - approx 42 boys and 8 girls.

I don't think your DC know anything , except social media gossip

If she wants to do the subject at degree level, maths is the most important subject to have a good grasp of.

It is a very dull GCSE. Most people who go on to take CS at uni in whatever form don't do it at GCSE. It is basic and does not encourage creativity at all.

What are they giving her instead? Something she likes or something that she doesn't but just happens to be capable of getting high grades at?

There are often kids dropping out in the first half term because they've decided they don't want to do a subject anymore (even if they originally chose it) so it's worthwhile keeping on asking.

I would have a discussion about how 'fairness' isn't only provided for by random selection, as it can't allow for additional barriers that certain groups experience. It's the equal or equitable argument - treating everybody the same doesn't necessarily treat them all fairly - but in all, there's a good chance she'll be able to switch, especially if she's got something she hates like sociology or business studies.

CS GCSE can be quite dull and the shortage of CS teachers means the quality of teaching can be patchy and/or disrupted by resignations etc. Certainly my DC found this at their otherwise decent school. So focusing on beefing up maths skills in the lead up to A levels, together with out-of-school activity, might prove to have been a better option.

It might be worthwhile checking that not being allowed to take CS GCSE does not inadvertently disadvantage your DD if she looks to take CS A level at their your school (assuming it has a sixth form). At my DCs' comp, there was a minimum Maths GCSE grade required, though this was lowered if you had a higher CS GCSE grade.

There are various CS-relates online courses and initiatives aimed at female students and your DD should research and apply for these; they are designed specifically to tackle the male:female imbalance in the CS sector. Some simple google research will unearth these pretty quickly.

Is there any way you can enable her to take it out of school? Is there another school locally that you could talk to about her either moving there or taking it there? It's a faff but if she is really going to get a decent mark in it this could really affect her confidence. If I were you I'd be looking into taking it somewhere else and then flout it in the school's face they can't use it for their league results. petty I know