How oversubscribed are your local schools? Will they be able to take on students who are currently privately-educated?

[Macaroons]

One of the headline Starmer kept talking about is charging VAT for private schools. This would make private school fees unaffordable for many who are not mega-rich, pushing more students back to the state education system. Would the state schools be able to take in the extra students? Many schools are already over-subscribed, are there enough schools, classrooms and teachers to take in the extra students? My fear is that the extra VAT they get is not going to be enough to provide education for more students under the state system, as well as the additional 6500 teachers they claim they can provide.

It is in Edinburgh where 25% of children are privately educated

It's ok they can get pooped in a bus to schools in West, East and Midlothian or over the water to Fife.

We won't let the wee darlings go without.

Some schools are full others have loads of spaces in the schools in my county. Private school parents would absolutely get a state school space, it just wouldn’t necessarily be in the nearest or highest rated school. Might be in a sink school half an hours drive away.

Spaces in local schools rated good in Oxfordshire.

Two independent schools have closed down in our area in recent years. It was very stressful for the children, parents and staff of course but they all got school places as far as I am aware. Some moved to other private schools elsewhere but the majority entered the state system. I know they didn't all get the schools they wanted initially - the DD of a friend of mine had to go to a school she really didn't want - but things settled over time and from what I hear most of the pupils stayed in the state sector and the chaos that was predicted in the local press and all over social media just didn't happen.
I would expect the same will happen nationally if this policy is implemented. Yes, some parents will be forced to withdraw their children from private schools and some, probably smaller schools will close as a result. But lots won't, and the impact on individual areas is unlikely to be huge, especially when you factor in the falling birth rate.

@MinervaMcGonagallsCat I think that’s a pretty unfeeling comment and makes you sound like you’ve got a huge chip on your shoulder.

It’s not even about state v private - it’s about taking these kids away from their friends and their learning communities and laughing about it.

The only thing that makes me want to vote tory is reading idiotic comments like this.

How about Bristol. I think it might be an even higher % than Edinburgh. There are loads and loads of private schools.

The thing is, all these threads very soon move into discussion of 'well it's fine, my state school has spaces, it's great that we'll have more kids coming in' - but according to Labour, that's not the point of the policy. In fact it's the opposite. Starmer says he has no problem with private schools. That he wants kids to stay in private schools, paying VAT, so that he can raise money to improve state schools. If lots of kids move and fill up all these state school places, the situation gets worse because there are more kids in state schools but no more money. People seem to be forgetting this. Starmer says the policy is to raise money. Many voters are gleefully inferring that it's designed to shrink the private sector and move more kids into state. But those two outcomes are a direct contradiction.

@redfacebigdisgrace

Nope it's a legitimate response to scaremongering hyperbole

If you say so. But I would never call children “little darlings” and mock them in the way you did. We’re obviously different though

Soonest a budget can happen is Autumn then it will take time for HMRC to put the mechanisms in place. Schools have had months if not years for contingency planning and all will have different strategies. They'll be able to reclaim VAT on their pre registration expenses like their capital projects, probably going back a couple of years assuming the same laws apply to them as apply to every other VAT registered business in the country, so that will mitigate the impact.
Bursars will have a very good idea of which families can take the hit and who needs more help and which year they are in.
The people working in your kids schools know their families. They got into education because they care about your kids and they are the best in their field. Your kids have really supportive families and they will be ok in their current school or a different school.

Brilliant post @ilikecatsandponies thank you 🌹

Waiting list at both local schools in catchment area. My children have places. Grammar schools full.

I know SEN children that can't get places as oversubscribed and they are going private for now. Also some childrens parents planning Kings high interleigh (I think that's the name) home learning while they wait for places.

Usually when people work out how much tax they can raise they assume changes in behaviour

So even though some children will move from private to state there is likely to be a net benefit to the state

I have noticed class sizes are bigger in the local school now but it has also become inadequate rather than good over the last 10 years 🙈

Our SW London primary has plenty of space. Birth rates have dropped and house prices too high for new churn of families.
I feel bad for those families just about affording fees but there is space in my area in primary schools and but some secondary schools are oversubscribed/ popukar sona bun fight unless in catchment like we are.

Oh, interesting. I'm from the other end of the country so probably haven't heard about it as much! Data for Edinburgh is very easy to find but Bristol less so; it just seems Bristol University takes on a disproportionate of private school leavers (as does Edinburgh Uni). Do you know what percentage of children in Bristol attend private schools? Had it been that way for a long time like in Edinburgh?

Haha, I’m Scottish!

Please comment on my thread in site stuff

@redfacebigdisgrace

Haha, I’m Scottish!

Then you should know better. 😂

The infant school dc went to was 3 form entry and is now 2 form entry despite endless amounts of new housing etc. Combination of old people not downsizing and falling birth rate I assume. The junior school is full.

I think it's a bad policy, because it makes private schools even more elitist. It won't affect the schools churning out horrible Tory Prime Ministers 😉 it'll just mean some quiet kids who were getting a decent education in a class of 16 will now be forgotten and ignored in a class of 35. I don't really understand why we are meant to hate these people so much.

Except the other councils don’t have to take them and if they do Edinburgh council will have to pay for transport - probably taxis if there are no buses that work. So that’s less money the council has for other things.

To repeat: Labour are allocating this money to all its extra teachers and breakfast clubs. If private school kids move to state in anything other than tiny numbers, then where is the money coming from to pay the £7,000 basic funding per child that it will cost to educate them?

@WhyIhatebaylissandharding

But they won't go without. And the first batch will be able to get spaces at the WHEC and Castlebrae and other low roll schools in Edinburgh. A few buses to Livingston will be be fine.