Need Advice: Is My Secondary School Appeal Outcome Letter Lacking Detail?

[D281b]

Hello everyone,

I could use some advice. I recently appealed the decision not to admit my child into Year 7 at our top-choice secondary school, citing significant health and wellbeing concerns, which were supported by evidence from our current school, a GP, and a psychologist. Unfortunately, the appeal was not successful. The outcome letter provided the following explanation:

“The Panel then moved on to the second part of the decision-making process, a balancing stage to determine whether, notwithstanding the above findings, the factors that you put forward outweighed the prejudice that would occur by your child’s admission to the school. The Panel carefully considered all of the evidence provided by you in writing and orally at the appeal, however, did not feel that your case for your child to be admitted to the school outweighed the prejudice to the school should an additional child be admitted. The Panel therefore concluded that your appeal should not be allowed.”

The letter acknowledges the appendices we included but lacks any detailed explanation or engagement with the specifics of my child's needs. This omission makes me question whether the panel truly considered all the aspects of our appeal.

Has anyone else experienced this? I'm curious about the level of detail typically included in these outcome letters and whether it generally reassures you that your case was thoroughly considered. I'm considering raising a complaint with the ombudsman about the procedural aspects, but first, I'd appreciate hearing from others who've been through similar appeals. Your insights could really help me understand if what we received was standard or if I have grounds to question the thoroughness of the panel's review.

Thank you in advance for sharing your experiences!

Your grounds for appeal were that it would benefit your child’s well being and health. Without knowing the specifics, it’s possible that the panel might fell that all the schools would (should) be able to support health and well being needs.

They decided that the prejudice to the school to admit over number outweighed the case for your child. Appeals rest on things such as whether the preferred school can offer something that the offered school cannot. If a child is a talented musician and the preferred school has an orchestra and opportunities to develop that and the offered school doesn’t, they might consider that the need for that child to be offered a place outweighs the prejudice to the school of going over number.

I would assume that the Panel felt that your child’s needs could be met at the school you’ve been offered.

Thank you for your response. I appreciate your insights into how the panel might have viewed our case.

However, my main concern is not the decision itself but the lack of detailed engagement with our specific health and wellbeing concerns in the outcome letter. I understand that the panel needs to balance various factors, but the letter we received feels quite generic and doesn't address the substantial evidence we provided from our child's current school, GP, and psychologist.

Is it common for these outcome letters to be so generic? Shouldn't there be more detailed feedback on why our specific points were not sufficient to outweigh the school's prejudice? I'm trying to determine if this lack of detail is typical or if it might indicate that our appeal wasn't fully considered.

Thanks again for your help.

It's always beneficial if you can outline the benefit to the school of enrolling your child, as well as the benefit to you and the child.

In what sense? Are you referring to the appeal itself or my post here? I’m a bit confused because the appeal has already taken place, and now I’m seeking advice about the outcome letter. I’m specifically wondering if the generic response they provided is typical or not.

We did not get more detail than that.

Unfortunately not many appeals on health and welfare seem to succeed unless there is an EHCP, because from the pov of a school and the LA all schools are supposed to be able to support children with a wide variety of needs.

I think our letter (which was an appeal for a wheelchair using child) was even less detailed.

Hi @Bluevelvetsofa I have not had an appeal letter, but have seen letters of rejection for a school place and they don;t tend to go into any detail - just giving the basic reason - under criterion 4, distance, for example.

I am not clear how it would benefit you if the letter said specifically "the panel felt that your child's need for xyz could be met by any school" or similar.

You say that your letter says The Panel carefully considered all of the evidence provided by you in writing and orally at the appeal, however, did not feel that your case for your child to be admitted to the school outweighed the prejudice to the school should an additional child be admitted.

That seems to me to make clear that the panel carefully considered the evidence you provided. I'm not sure what else they could say?

I understand it must be frustrating to have put together your case and then for it to be rejected. Are you on the WL?

I haven’t done a school appeal but DH has and didn’t succeed - I will try and dig it out.

However, it’s the sort of letter I would expect. Ultimately it is a balance of prejudice and they won’t want to say “letter from Dr X wasn’t that strong” in case you try and appeal with a stronger letter etc.

@D281b were you hoping for a letter that said how they considered each piece of evidence and came to their conclusions? I don't think that's massively realistic because often panels form a composite view of all the evidence available to them. They may find some evidence irrelevant, some useful but limited, some strong, etc. Ultimately, however strong the evidence, they decided that it wasn't enough to admit your child. Bear in mind that there may have been many appeals, and some of them could have succeeded.

The appeals code is quite clear that the full decision letter must contain a summary of factors that were raised and discussed (see highlighted paragraph).

My LA would definitely send a more detailed letter than that; we discuss them in decision making. Yours sounds very generic.

Is this the first letter you have had? Sometimes a quick decision is sent and then a more detailed letter follows - that is now my LA do it.

And no, benefits the child might bring to the school are irrelevant to appeal. The panel won't be interested that little Freddie would be an asset to the cricket team!

Good info from @PatriciaHolm there

Thank you so much for your response and the helpful advice.

To clarify, the quick decision I received was actually an email sent on the day of the appeal informing me that my appeal wasn’t upheld. It mentioned that I would receive a more detailed letter, which is the one I’ve now received. Unfortunately, this letter still lacks a summary of the factors I raised, which included distance, mental health concerns, neurodiversity, and the impact on childcare. It only states that they received my documents without engaging with any specifics.

Based on what you’ve shared, it seems that my outcome letter lacks the necessary detail required by the appeals code. I understand if it was just my opinion, but I provided an abundance of written information from professionals, including our GP, school, and psychologist. None of this was considered in the outcome letter, other than a brief mention thanking us for the appendices.

Given that I am certain there will be no further communication from the LA, I think I will proceed with raising the issue with the ombudsman. It seems clear that the decision letter should include more specifics about the factors I raised.

Thank you for your response and the perspective you’ve provided.

I understand that it may not be realistic for the outcome letter to assess every piece of evidence individually. However, I do expect the letter to break down the reasons for my appeal and provide some of the logic or rationale behind the panel’s decision. While they may form a composite view of the evidence, a brief explanation of how they weighed key factors, such as my child’s mental health concerns, neurodiversity, and the impact on childcare, would offer reassurance that these critical aspects were truly considered.

I appreciate that there may have been many appeals and that the panel may have found other cases stronger. Nonetheless, an acknowledgment of the main points raised and an outline of the reasoning behind their decision would help in understanding their assessment process.

Can I just ask please what are you hoping to be the outcome? Is it just that you want to understand more the reasons why? Or are you still hoping that there has been an error and your dc will be admitted?

Thank you for your response.

I understand that letters of rejection might typically provide only basic reasons, such as criterion 4, distance. However, in the case of an appeal, I believe more detail is warranted to understand the decision-making process fully.

We are not on the waiting list, and there is absolutely no chance of being admitted in the category we are in. The only suggestion that they carefully considered our appeal is the use of the word "carefully" in the letter, as they haven’t mentioned any of the specific reasons behind why we raised the appeal in the first place.

While I understand that they may feel my child's needs could be met by any school, a brief explanation of how they weighed key factors such as my child's mental health concerns, neurodiversity, and the impact on childcare would offer reassurance that these critical aspects were truly considered. It would benefit us by providing transparency and helping us understand the rationale behind their decision.

I appreciate that it must be challenging to address every detail, but an acknowledgment of the main points raised would make the process feel more considerate.

What I want is an updated outcome letter that acknowledges the points I’ve raised and, in their words, explains why these points didn’t matter. Alternatively, I would accept a fresh appeal that results in an outcome letter justifying the points I’ve raised, and again, in their words, explaining why each point does or doesn’t matter.

I don’t feel that the current outcome letter shows any consideration of the considerable concerns I’ve raised and based my appeal on. It seems like they’ve just listened and given me a generic response. My gut instinct suspects that they’re not comfortable listing the reasons for my appeal in writing, alongside their rejection of each point, because of how it will look. It’s easier for them to fob me off by not addressing my concerns specifically while saying no.

I am looking for a detailed response that reflects a thorough consideration of the specific issues I highlighted, such as my child’s mental health concerns, neurodiversity, and the impact on childcare. I can accept a “no” if I truly feel that my concerns have been heard and considered.

I don't think they are obliged to give more detail. Yours will be one of many heard that day. You may be able to get any minutes via a dsar but that may still not give enough detail to resolve your question.

I think you’re expecting too much tbh. While it sounds like they are supposed to give some detail, what are you hoping to achieve? I don’t mean that in the snarky way it comes across, I’m genuinely asking. You have been assured that all the evidence was considered and that’s the most important thing. By giving you details, they would be opening themselves up to you arguing back and trying to bring up more information and they just don’t have the capacity to deal with that once the appeal has been heard.

On the issues you raised, childcare is very unlikely to be something they take into consideration. Everyone has childcare issues, it’s up to parents to sort out and is not a reason to put a school over their numbers. It’s about this child and this school, nothing else.

Mental health and neurodiversity are things they they expect all schools to be able to deal with because it is highly likely that both your appeal school and allocated school deal with both those issues all the time.

What is it about the appeal school that you believe makes them more capable than any other of dealing with your child’s specific mental health issues or neurodivergence? Unless you have already given them very solid evidence that this school can offer something that is especially important in meeting your child’s need, over and above what is expected of any school, there’s not much they can say in response.

Thank you for your response and the comments.

I understand why you see it this way, but without mentioning any of the concerns I’ve raised in the outcome letter, let alone providing some detail, how can they expect me to feel heard? I don’t think they open themselves up to me arguing back and forth, as their decision is final, provided they show they’ve followed the proper process.

I appreciate the comments about childcare. On the surface, I agree that it’s typically not a consideration for school placement. However, in our case, the childcare is intrinsically linked to mental health support, and this is backed up by professionals. This adds a dimension that I believe warrants consideration.

The reason we appealed for this specific school is because it’s the only school that holistically could meet my child’s needs. This is due to its physical location and the support network attending the school, which is crucial for the continuity of my child’s mental health support. These factors make this school uniquely capable of supporting my child’s specific requirements.

I appreciate the further comments as well, but I’d rather not go into the absolute specifics right now. I’m just trying to understand whether the lack of acknowledgment in the outcome letter is the norm or not. My main concern is that without acknowledging, let alone addressing the key issues I raised, it doesn’t feel like the panel has truly considered my appeal.

I've no experience of this sort of appeal but I would expect an appeal determination to outline specifically the medical evidence and why that evidence did not outweigh the impact on other pupils. Unless there was a list somewhere which clearly showed what had been considered I would also be doubting if they had seen it

The appeals process isn’t about your feelings though, it’s literally only about weighing the respective prejudices. I think you are on a hiding to nothing by asking them to make you feel heard.

Firstly I would deffo go on the WL or at least find out where you would be. Just bc you are a long way away (I presume) and thus not high up the list makes no odds. Lots of ppl who are nearer might be fine with the school they have been offered.

Secondly as others say – by themselves, your child’s ND and MH issues are not reasons for a school to allocated a place above PAN – these issues are expected to be dealt with by any school. Yes of course they are important – and the appeal panel’s rejection is not saying they are not – just that they are not the kinds of factors that usually can be considered.

The exception would be if (for example) the preferred school had specific MH support such as an onsite counsellor or a provision that was specifically aimed at DC with MH issues or who are ND. Is there any way you could get the school named on your DC’s EHCP?

Childcare is not usually considered by appeal panels – secondary school aged DC are deemed not to need childcare and to get themselves to and from school.

Sorry to be harsh but like others, I am not sure what you hope to achieve? Are you simply after acknowledgement from the appeal panel of your DC’s issues and difficulties?

So if the panel writes back again and says something like:

We considered your child’s MH issues but we deemed that the support offered by the preferred school was the type of support that would be offered at any school, including the allocated school, so this did not constitute a reason for the school to admit your child

(and then similar paragraphs about the other issues you raised)

? would that make you happier? Would you feel then that your appeal had been heard?

I think @Witsend101 has a point that you are concerned that written documents were not considered. Is it worth contacting the panel to clarify that they were?

I suspect that too much detail results more more challenges to the appeal not less, because people say "yes, but..." and think that they can answer that particular aspect in a way that will definitely mean they get through the next.

It's a bit like "can you babysit for me tonight at 7:30?"
"I've got to pick my dd up at 9:30."
"Can't your dh do that..?"
When the real reason is they've got to drop the dd at 7, and only then will they have chance to eat dinner, and they promised their elderly mother who went into a home last week a phone call, and they know that won't be quick and they need to sew on 3 cub badges and mend the hole in their ds' trousers before his school trip the next day, they promised dd that they would pick them up because dh has picked them up the last three weeks and anyway they're just too tired.

Did you run the appeal past the experts here? Because often there's people that think they have a watertight case and the experts tell them that nothing they've said would really be something to win an appeal. You see, everyone appealing feels that their dc has special enough circumstances to win.

Probably the best thing you could do would be ask really nicely one of the experts if you could pm them the full reasons and let them look at it. They'll tell you if you were not considered properly and worth taking it further, unlucky but not worth taking it further, or your reasons would be lucky to have won, or would not win in a month of Sundays. That way you can either put it to bed, or use their advice to take it further.

You are unlikely to get more specific feedback. However, if you choose to take it to the LGO, they will assess whether there is anything to investigate, and if they do investigate they would ask to see the notes that the clerk made of the discussions at the time of appeal. If the clerk has done a good job, they will have noted all the decision making factors. You won't be given that detail, but it will be viewed by the LGO and they will assess if sufficient regard was given to your grounds of appeal (and therefore evidence).

Having said that, the most they are likely to do is ask the school to give you a fresh appeal, and if other appeals have been successful, then the bar will be even higher to overcome the prejudice that the school would face to give your child a place.

Thank you so much for your response @Lougle. This is really helpful, as it’s precisely the kind of assurance I’m looking for to know that my case has been handled seriously. The outcome letter I received, which essentially says, “the school’s problem is bigger than yours,” doesn’t give me any confidence that my concerns were thoroughly considered.

I appreciate that some in this chat might say it’s not about me feeling heard, but as a parent, I would argue that it is. It’s about being able to appeal to a group of people, explaining why my child needs the school I was appealing for, and knowing that they seriously considered my legitimate concerns. Otherwise, what would be the point of the appeal process?

It’s also about making sure I’ve tried my utmost for my child. People need not forget that by the sheer fact I’m appealing, I’m hugely worried about my child not being admitted to this school. If I don’t think it’s being taken seriously, how could I be at ease knowing I did nothing about it?

I understand from your message that getting more specific feedback directly might be unlikely, @Lougle. However, taking it to the LGO is a serious option for me to consider, especially if they review the notes the clerk made during the appeal discussions and let me know if there's anything to investigate. While I might not see these details, knowing the LGO would ensure that sufficient regard was given to my grounds of appeal would be reassurance.

Even if the most (un)likely outcome is a recommendation for a fresh appeal, knowing that my case was reviewed thoroughly and fairly is crucial.

Thanks again.