Secondary school placement appeal advice

[Street83]

We have an appeal hearing in a couple of weeks. My daughter attends church but the school we are appealing against required a form with 3 parts. One declaration by us we attended church. 2nd part declaration by vicar and part 3 to be completed by the same vicar and an unspecified time in the application that we attend church. Both parts were received but the school did not receive part 3. The vicar confirmed verbally over the phone but 2 requests by email and he did not submit part 3, so we were downgraded in the entry criteria without notice and we lost our place. My daughter is dyslexic but does not require an ehcp. I wanted this school because of the Christian values and dyslexic care. Has anyone got any tips for our appeal hearing?
The vicar gave no reason for failing to return the part 3 and he failed to return any applicants from our church, from Sunday school and boys brigade and we didn't find out until too late.

Is it CoE or Catholic School? Are you in past years catchment or catholic parishes?
I suspect that it is not Catholic school as you would not use faith in the appeal as everybody who gets in has to be ...baptised and practicing yet some still not get in if they are not in the catchment parish.

Do you attend church regularly and frequently?

Why did he not return your (and others'?) forms? I suspect it will be deemed done to you to ensure evidence was submitted completely and on time, so not their error. The LA can only use information available to them at the time. Had that firm been accepted would you have got a space? You can appeal anyway, citing whatever this school can offer of benefit to your dc.

Is the form now done, because presumably you will move up the waiting list once it is submitted

What was the vicar's reasoning, OP? Does that mean there are lots of kids who should have got in while ended up getting rejected?

Yes lots of kids were declined. My argument for the appeal is that we regularly attend but through no fault of our own we were downgraded

This is not something that you leave with vicar to confirm via phone unless the application process requires it. It is usually a form for a priest/vicar to complete . E.g. for Catholic schools is required Cerificate of Catholic Practice. They may tell you that it was up to you to ensure that the written confirmation has been submitted.
It is very bizzare that essential part of application is handled by a vicar and is not signed by a vicar but submitted by you. Also, surely you are not the only one who attends that church and that many kids from that church are applying for that school. How come the vicar has not followed the process with you but did follow with them?
First and foremost on the 1st of March you should call the priest and he should call/ send the missing application.

For me the entire story is a bit bizarre

You've misunderstood. @Street83 is saying that this vicar didn't do any of the forms.

Did the admissions criteria state that the parent must send the supplementary form? If so, I don't think you can argue that a mistake has been made.

@Street83 did your vicar keep an attendance register? If not, they can't confirm your church attendance.

If you threaten to take legal action against the vicar you wouldn't be the first, and it might have a positive outcome for the school as it did in this case: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3058234/amp/Vicar-won-t-pick-pupils-based-religion-Church-England-school-dropped-faith-selection.html

The vicar did not submit part 3 for the boys brigade or the usual attendees. The criteria stipulated that part 3 had to be submitted by the vicar at their request at an undisclosed date. There was nothing i could do to intervene/assist

There was lots of kids but I can't say that in my appeal as too many in the same spot could act against me

What does the boys brigade have to do with it? Clause 1.9 of the admissions code prevents the use of hobbies in admissions criteria. Church attendance can be used, but not boys' brigade attendance.

The vicar neglected to sign and return everyone's part 3 including boys brigade or normal parishioners. Nobody got their 3rd part signed without reason or notice.

Not an expert but can you argue the entry criteria is unreasonable given that a third party is solely responsible for submitting the correct evidence?

It's difficult to be sure without seeing the admission criteria, but from what you've said I suspect that part 3 required confirmation of a statement such as "Person X has attended worship X times a month for X years". Many churches near faith schools now keep registers so they can evidence this. If this vicar didn't keep a register then he may not have felt able to sign the form.

Might there be some other evidence of your attendance? E.g. some churches have donation envelopes with gift aid declarations on them. If you signed one of those for each visit then the church administrator should have a record of them. That might help your appeal.

The boys brigade attendance register can't be used as it is not evidence of worship.

@Street83 if you tell us the exact wording of the oversubscription criteria, we may be able to help further.

Yes lots of kids missed out. They have records of our regular and frequent attendance.

I'd like some tips for the face to face appointment to try and win our appeal. We would have got a space if that form had been sent on time as I can tell from the admissions report.

@Street83 you need to tag the person you're replying to or use the quote feature.

At the appeal you need to convince the panel that either:

1. The admissions policy wasn't correctly applied, or
2. The school has space to admit you, or
3. The detriment to your child of not getting a place is greater than the detriment to the school of going over its planned admission number.

From the limited info you have given, your case for number 3 is weak because dyslexia is very common.

Your best chance may be number 1. But nobody can help you with that unless you share the wording of the oversubscription criteria.

It is unlikely that the criterion says "must have form from priest". It is more likely to say "must have evidence of church attendance X times a month over X years". If the latter, then you may be able to provide alternative evidence that the criterion is met.

Just going in with a story about how the priest didn't sign your form and insisting he should have done probably won't be enough.

I suspect their answer might be No - but you could ask the vicar to do the decent thing and provide you with a written explanation re why the third section of the form was not completed in your DD's case. If you receive it by the deadline given by the clerk to the appeal panel, send it to him / her straightaway (if it arrives after the deadline, ask anyway if it can be included).

If the form itself is provided for the school now, and the content does indicate that your DD should have been offered a place, she should at least be moved further up the waiting list.

If lots of people had the same issue, how can you be sure you would have got a place if the vicar had returned all the forms correctly?

How connected is the school and church - sometimes you will find they are very connected, with the clergy on the board etc, so you might be able to argue that the admissions authority made an error as they really should have seen that they had lots of applications where the vicar had not signed. Your problem there is that there are lots of people in the same boat and the school is unlikely to be able to correct it for all, as they cannot at this point remove the other offers.

I have to say it's a very unusual requirement for the vicar to be responsible for the last singing without you having to submit it - criteria would normally require you getting the signatures and submitting the forms, so you would know if they didn't do it: if you want to PM me the name of the school I can check.

I would try to find the key reasons why she needs this school over and above the mistake too as unfortunately I think it's going to be hard for a panel to give a place just on that.

Is it a new vicar who didn't realise the implications of not returning the form? - it seems a flawed process to applicants if a response is not required, even if it is negative that you don't regularly attend, so at least there is a record of response (even if not in favour of the applicants).

Is it possible he didn't do it because he thought some people were only doing going to church to get a school place so he could not in good faith fill any of the forms in?

Intent is irrelevant. if the attendance is happening, the form should be signed.

Intent is irrelevant. if the attendance is happening, the form should be signed.

Yes but a vicar might not feel that he can, morally.

The form should only be signed if the vicar has evidence. He can't be expected to monitor everyone's attendance. It is his decision whether he has a register or not. Sone vicars reject the idea of a register.

The size of his congregation may reduce when word gets round though.

It's no big secret that the fate of many UK school places is in the gift of the clergy. Some priests have a more lenient attitude than others.