Secondary school placement appeal advice

[Street83]

We have an appeal hearing in a couple of weeks. My daughter attends church but the school we are appealing against required a form with 3 parts. One declaration by us we attended church. 2nd part declaration by vicar and part 3 to be completed by the same vicar and an unspecified time in the application that we attend church. Both parts were received but the school did not receive part 3. The vicar confirmed verbally over the phone but 2 requests by email and he did not submit part 3, so we were downgraded in the entry criteria without notice and we lost our place. My daughter is dyslexic but does not require an ehcp. I wanted this school because of the Christian values and dyslexic care. Has anyone got any tips for our appeal hearing?
The vicar gave no reason for failing to return the part 3 and he failed to return any applicants from our church, from Sunday school and boys brigade and we didn't find out until too late.

“He can't be expected to monitor everyone's attendance.”

Yes, he can, if that is part of the requirement for school places for his parishioners.

I would rather there weren’t faith schools and I am an atheist. But since there are such schools, there has to be objective and measurable ways to qualify for them.

Intent is irrelevant. if the attendance is happening, the form should be signed.

Vicars may not feel that intent is irrelevant. They may feel intent is very relevant indeed.

What's the point of him signing any form if he is not permitted to use his own brain.

At my DD's secondary school, if you have a dentist/brace appointment you have to take a screenshot of your location on your phone when you are at the dentist and email it to school as proof as the brace dentists won't provide appointment cards because they have a hundred teenagers a day.

Maybe the attendees of the church services could do a selfie at the font every week if the vicar has to sign the form whether he thinks they are members of his congregation or not.

“What's the point of him signing any form if he is not permitted to use his own brain.”

Because the criteria has to be objective.

Otherwise maybe he doesn’t sign because he doesn’t like you. Or only signs for boys. Or for Caucasian children. Or for Jenny, not Jane, because Jenny’s granny does the flowers or puts £20 on the collection plate each week.

The vicar signs the forms, and hands them back to the applicant.
He doesn’t usually take charge of actually sending them on himself?
This is all very odd.

No, I'm afraid you're wrong. He's not under any obligation to do so. Many CoE clergy are against faith school admissions.

e.g.
https://inews.co.uk/news/faith-schools-clergy-church-of-england-admissions-attendance-432264

https://fairadmissions.org.uk/church-of-england-dioceses-that-encourage-their-schools-to-not-select-pupils-by-faith/

*Vicars may not feel that intent is irrelevant. They may feel intent is very relevant indeed.

What's the point of him signing any form if he is not permitted to use his own brain.*

Any criteria that allowed any sort of such subjective decision to be made by the vicar would be against the admissions code, which has the force of law. Criteria must be "reasonable, clear, objective, procedurally fair" and in the case specifically for those with faith based criteria, authorities "must ensure that parents can easily understand how any faith base criteria can be easily satisfied".

Which is why the great majority of these type of criteria now do have evidence in the form of registration or stamps. Criteria must be evidenced based.

Most vicars haven't read the admissions code, and many take a relaxed approach when it comes to signing forms. Our local vicar only introduced a register at the point where his congregation swelled so much that he felt he couldn't keep track, and when he started getting form-signing requests from people he didn't recognise.

“No, I'm afraid you're wrong. He's not under any obligation to do so. Many CoE clergy are against faith school admissions.”

Thanks, I didn’t know about the No obligation.

I’m glad you have confirmed that it has to be objective and easily understandable criteria though :-)

@jeezlueez - The issue would be if people did attend, were on the register enough to evidence that they meet the criteria, but he refused to sign because he didn't think they were true believers.

These days most faith criteria do have some sort of evidence register, as it has become more of an issue as you mention, and there have been increased legal challenges to faith based criteria.

Though we have no idea what actually happened here as OP hasn't explained!

Yes, I agree.

If there had been a register then presumably the op would have mentioned it, but maybe she will confirm either way.

Though we have no idea what actually happened here as OP hasn't explained!

True, that is why I was wondering if he hadn't signed purposefully as it seems quite an oversight to fail to fill out lots of forms for many children.

Op, are you the only one appealing of those you say did not have the form signed? Would you definitely have got a place if you had, according to the oversubscription criteria?

We attend a church in central London. There are over 100 children on the Sunday school register (it might be closer to 200) and two services on a Sunday. Registration is recorded on an iPad which I assume gets uploaded to excel or some database.
As we get 6 school preferences in London, many people apply for a number of faith schools. In September and October each year the clergy received a large number of forms for which they have to check that the criteria are met and sign off. None of these clergy forms go back to the parents, they all go straight to the respective schools.i presume this is to stop parents doctoring/potentially committing fraud once the church team have filled it in.

Op screenshot the admissions criteria and post on here

I still really want to know why the vicar didn't fill out the forms!

We are Catholic and in South West London the priest is filling certificate of catholic practice as well as he has a list of who was attending the mass. As the Catholic schools are accepting from the very specific parishes they are in touch with specific priests who have lists.
For somebody who is outside the designated parishes the chances to get a school allocation is close to zero. And yes, we do have also 6 prefences.But there aren't 6 Catholic schools where we would be even considered. 2 if lucky

Worth mentioning that Catholic priests have an obligation under Canon law to facilitate the process of educating Catholic children in Catholic settings. Church of England priests don't.

Ahhh thank you that is helpful background

I just picked this CofE diocesan education board at random but its content is pretty standard: https://dioceseofyork.wpenginepowered.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/DBE-Admissions-Guidance-2024-for-2026-7-admissions-FINAL.pdf

It says "We recommend a conversation takes place with local ministers of religion to ensure that they understand that they will receive requests for confirmation and to reflect on how this will be verified."

And from the other side of the coin, so to speak, the Admissions Code says:

1.38 Admission authorities for schools designated as having a religious character must have regard to any guidance from the body or person representing the religion or religious denomination when constructing faith- based admission arrangements, to the extent that the guidance complies with the mandatory provisions and guidelines of this Code. They must also consult with the body or person representing the religion or religious denomination when deciding how membership or practice of the faith is to be demonstrated. Church of England schools must, as required by the Diocesan Boards of Education Measure 199132, consult with their diocese about proposed admission arrangements before any public consultation.

So all in all, no real reason for any misunderstanding wrt to rôle of the local church(es) vis à vis the admissions policies of local schools of that faith.

All those "musts" apply to the school not the local clergy. The "body or person representing the religion or religious denomination" means their foundation governors, who are usually local clergy or diocesan representatives, but that doesn't mean all local clergy are consulted. Church schools usually have a close relationship with at least one nearby church. But as far as we know, the op's church may be further away from the school and not directly linked.

Whilst this is true, I am aware of cases where schools have lost admission appeals because clergy have either refused to complete SIFs, or have signed to say people have met the attendance requirement when they have not, or have failed to keep a proper register allowing them to determine whether the attendance requirement has been met.