Secondary Appeal - Appealing against a school

[flamingobeach]

Hi. Just after advice regarding how to approach this. Everything I've read so far stresses the importance of focusing on why your child should go to the school you're appealing for, rather than why they shouldn't go to the one they've been allocated. My circumstances are rather unusual and I wonder if this is something a panel will have come across before. I am a GP and have deliberately chosen the in-catchment school for our child outside the surgery boundaries. We have been allocated a school which literally shares exactly the same boundary. Part of my appeal focuses on potential conflict of interest. Is this something that I could use in my appeal? We have moved away from the surgery boundary specifically in the hope of avoiding this situation. I have a supportive letter from the practice partners. Obviously we have other factors to discuss at appeal, but wondered if work/conflict often comes up? Wondered if someone with a similar experience could share their insight. Thanks.

What's the conflict of interest? You wouldn't be discussing your patients with your dc.... I don't understand what you're getting at.

This type of appeal will happen a lot for people for example whose parents are police and they’ve a school allocated in a certain area etc. My friend won her primary school appeal and the basis of it was related to the above….
this was a few years ago.
Youve nothing to lose and lots to gain.
However I’d be realistic you might not be successful.
Also you have to weigh up how much impact will it actually have on your child, you won’t do school runs as you would in primary - no waiting at the gates being asked awkward work questions. Noone will really associate your child and you together…. So how much would it impact things?

No, obviously I won't be discussing patients. I've been a GP at the same surgery for almost 20 years and my main specialist interest is substance and mental health. I am often involved in child protection cases with children attending the school we've been allocated. I'm just trying to avoid awkward encounters and to protect my own child from unwarranted stress. I don't think that is unreasonable.

I knew someone with a dh in the police force who used this argument successfully, so yes, go for it.

While you are appealing for this specific school, if the major reason for not wanting the one that you were allocated is as you have stated (and I can see that an appeal panel might be sympathetic, but if the school puts forward a strong case for not admitting any further pupils into the year group, I'm not sure that your case would be judged to outweigh this - as it has already been commented, there are lots of professions where there are potential problems in theory), are you also on the waiting list / appealing for other schools, or is this the only school where the problems you fear will occur with the allocated school are guaranteed not to be an issue?

Presumably, you were allocated the school you have been as the nearest undetsubscribed school to your address, rather than as one of your ranked preferences?

Sounds convincing unless there are other schools in the area and they ask you a question why X school and not Y.

I don't get why your job is of any relevance. High school kids generally would have no idea on other kids parents. Parents are not involved with the school as such. I've two teens and never see any of other parents.

The problem is that she could establish a precedence to all GPs in the country. That is why they may refuse.

I think it is worth arguing and appealing (and I was ready to say you shouldn’t). I have no doubt the OP would be professional and not disclose anything. However, the issue is that her (I assume she’s a female!) may come home with a friend who is their patient. If I think about my child, they would have absolutely freak her out if she went to a home and realised her friend’s mum was the person she had just been discussing her mental health with. Teens don’t necessarily understand / trust the confidentiality bound by professionals. And it is no good saying, well they should just swap GP’s. If the OP is the surgery’s expert in mental health and child protection etc she is likely the best person allocated to them.

Children of police are awarded this protection, I don’t see why you shouldn’t be too.

I think it is a valid point.

I once went to the doctor for an extremely personal and distressing matter and when I walked in it was my DDs friends mum. I hadn’t realised it was her when I made the appointment as she used her maiden name for work.
I had to apologise and say I needed to make an appt with someone else.
likewise if as the OP has been involved in child protection cases etc and her child then becomes friends with children involved (or cousins etc) then it could be quite uncomfortable if this is found out and cause her child to be bullied in retaliation.

You could be a social worker or anyone who has detailed info about families that’s confidential. I don’t think it’s a valid argument. It’s pulling rank really.

A social worker would have the same argument , even more so. If for example they’d stood up in family court and argued for care proceedings and that family were then at the school their child was going to. Very much a reasonable ground for appeal.

Realistically it’s rare, most people in social care don’t work their area,same with the police etc

In what part of the Admissions Code does it say you can appeal for a school on the basis you don’t want the school allocated because of the parent’s job? I’m curious. Can anyone give me the para that says this? Also, if the panel has several stronger appeals, where does this argument sit as it’s nothing to do with education? @MarchingFrogs Any idea?

@TizerorFizz you can submit am appeal on whatever your own personal grounds are - even if you decide to submit a 'prejudice' appeal when you have been told that you have been turned down under Infant Class Size legislation and of all the restrictions imposed on the IAP under those circumstances (and once in a blue moon, an 'ICS' appeal succeeds because, on examination of the facts as presentted by the admission authority, the panel discovers that one of the very few reasons on which the appeal should be upheld actually does obtain).

The OP still has to present a case for the school which has turned their DC down, yes, but it is quite reasonable for them to refer to the difficulties they perceive to be a potential issue, should the child have to go to the allocated school, because that it is one of the reasons why they are appealing (although if the school was a listed preference, rather than the nearest undersubscribed school, the panel my well be less sympathetic than they might otherwise have been. Also, I think I am not the only person who has said that for the appeal to be upheld, the school's case not to admit an extra pupil woukd have to be judged quite weak).

However some people may feel on the subject (please feel free to lobby your MP, folks), it is a parent's legal right to appeal the refusal of a place, whatever their reasons are. If the OP applied for a place and was refused, they can appeal.

Yes I know they can appeal. It was millions of success given the admissions code I was thinking about. It’s a bit of a slippery slope in my view in that it’s not about education for DC.

The appeals code actually says

"The panel must balance the prejudice to the school against the appellant’s case for the child to be admitted to the school. It must take into account the appellant’s reasons for expressing a preference for the school, including what that school can offer the child that the allocated or other schools cannot. If the panel considers that the appellant’s case outweighs the prejudice to the school, it must uphold the appeal. "

The reasons for expressing a preference for the school can be anything an appellant cares about . Appeals do not have to be on the basis of education, though that of course makes for the strongest appeal, one that is more likely to win. I have sat on appeals before where the grounds were similar to the OPs, and at least one was allowed, where the school's case was weak. There is no (other than for ICS appeals) explicit list of grounds for appeal that can or cannot be used. If a school's case is weak, appeals on a variety of grounds can be won.

Appeals don't set precedents. A case that is won against school X might lose against school Y if school Y has a stronger case. Plus cases aren't published or made public.

True

I made an appeal on the same basis OP - I had done a lot of child protection at DC allocated school. I did not win the appeal but was offered a place at our school of choice one week before term started.

Thank God. A note of sanity on the appeal threads. I work in this area and @MarchingFrogs this is exactly my view too.

Thousands of GPs, hospital workers, social workers, police, probation. Officers etc have kids in schools in the area they work

Exactly. What a shame dc have to attend a school where everyone knows their Dad’s in prison etc. Where does it end?

Actually I know the answer to that. Too many appeals.

Agreed.

And it’s okay if we don’t want to stand outside the school gates next to families who we have been instrumental in having their child/ren removed.

It‘s kind of normal not to want to do that?

@flamingobeach it's one of the stronger appeal arguments I've heard on this forum, so worth a try (and I don't say that lightly, as someone who defends appeals on behalf of a school).

However, if you lose the appeal, and your child goes to the allocated school, then they will be in a similar position to a child of staff at the school. It is common for desirable schools to have children-of-staff priority in their admissions policies Our school usually admits at least 1 child a year under this criterion, including children of senior leaders. This probably does create awkwardness for those children, but they manage.

I realise it's different when it's an active choice rather than an allocation though.