Secondary Appeal - Appealing against a school

[flamingobeach]

Hi. Just after advice regarding how to approach this. Everything I've read so far stresses the importance of focusing on why your child should go to the school you're appealing for, rather than why they shouldn't go to the one they've been allocated. My circumstances are rather unusual and I wonder if this is something a panel will have come across before. I am a GP and have deliberately chosen the in-catchment school for our child outside the surgery boundaries. We have been allocated a school which literally shares exactly the same boundary. Part of my appeal focuses on potential conflict of interest. Is this something that I could use in my appeal? We have moved away from the surgery boundary specifically in the hope of avoiding this situation. I have a supportive letter from the practice partners. Obviously we have other factors to discuss at appeal, but wondered if work/conflict often comes up? Wondered if someone with a similar experience could share their insight. Thanks.

@flamingobeach also, I suggest you don't take the "appealing for a school" mantra too literally. If I have understood correctly, you're appealing for this school because it is the only one that is both within catchment and yet outside of your surgery area. It is perfectly logical, and indeed necessary, for you to state why none of the other catchment schools (including the offered school) meet your child's needs.

Btw, does the appeal school have an exceptional circumstances criterion and, if so, did you tick that box on your application?

Be really interested to hear what happens. My DH is a GP and our kid attends school within his surgery catchment, even the head is one of his patients! But I can’t quite imagine another system in a small town - we have three GP surgeries & two secondary schools, and quite a fluid population across the two. Same for police, SW etc…

Did you mention all of this in your initial application?

Yes. I was asked this in my appeal which was an in year appeal.

Are there no other schools at all with places?

This part:

Do you have What'sApp chat for the class parents?
Do you have parent class rep?

We don’t at my kids secondary school, and I’m not aware of that at any other secondary school locally. I have no contact with other parents at all that I don’t seek out (eg by saying to DD ‘well if you want to go to Lilly’s house I need to check this with Lilly’s mum’)

DD has occasionally (maybe twice or 3 times in 5 years at the school) mentioned the name of a child I recognise from CP information.

@ebigum I think the scenario mentioned by a previous poster yesterday (10.30am- ish) is worth outlining in your case. This is not just about awkwardness for your own child, but also for the many children (and their parents) who might need to consult you on personal matters in the years ahead.

It must be a very common scenario in small towns with only one school and one GP surgery (especially as the cost of private schools has risen, and GPs aren't necessarily paid as well as they used to be). It makes sense to try and avoid it if possible.

@AgathaMystery but this is secondary. Parents don't go Brad school gates. Kids would have no idea

I can’t imagine they will consider this. My youngest was allocated the school I worked at until it caused a complete breakdown in my MH. We appealed on the basis that this would impact on my MH and so on my child. No luck.

Do you have What'sApp chat for the class parents?
Do you have parent class rep?

Definitely not!

@ebigum but you could know a potential patient from all sorts of fields - kids sports club, your choir, your next door neighbour etc - as it sounds like OP lives in the same patch as her surgery, hence being given the same school as her surgery patch. Generally GPs and other professions would avoid this by commuting further to a workplace so there is less social cross over.

@JustWingItLifeEyelinerEverything
No it's secondary.
Parents generally leave their kids to it. There's 300 kids in Yr7
Parents do not go to school gates.
Parents do not arrange things for Yr7 kids.
That's why parent jobs are not a big issue. My DC would have no idea about other kids parents unless best mates

Posters commenting here need to say if they're talking from primary appeal or secondary appeal experience.
Parents at secondary have so little to do with school and the vast majority of children at the school (ie except your child's friends.

Proof that in your case it wasn't taken as a valid appeal point. You got in on wait list later. Even with direct examples of involvement.

Whilst this is o my a personal opinion- so therefore not helpful, the amount of parental involvement in high school is vastly less than primary. You will have very little face to face contact with drop off with other parents and children, so as long as you are not discussing it at home, there is in reality little chance that you will see the kids/ parents in the school setting- if kids are dropped off, parents don't usually even get out the car as the independence of high school children is much higher. Also a HCW, in the area my child will attend and work in child mental health at times- this wasn't even something I considered as I don't anticipate seeing the children/ parents in the school setting. However there are many very well educated people on MN who will be able to guide you if this is something that can be considered. I assume you're in the waitlist for the preferred school?

This entirely.
Their argument could be why that particular school, especially if there are other schools in the area. Also I have found many gps do take patients outside of the catchment area, especially for things like a specialist referral…so their theory could be that you could maybe encounter those families if your child went to the other school anyway.

@SD1978 I'd also say 95% of high school kids do not get a lift to school. Yr7 are generally expected to get themselves there. Literally the only kids I speak to are my DC best mates if they come round / at sport. No interaction at all with the other 295 in their year groups

Of course. And the appeals panel may not see it as a strong case for that, or another, reason. Like all school appeals, the strength of the appellant's case will be balanced against the strength of the school's case in the eyes of the appeals panel. The outcome could go either way.

I have withdrawn from appeal threads, but am commenting here because so much of the advice being offered is misleading.

From my experience (primary and secondary) the outcome of such appeals is hard to predict. The panel has to consider the needs of the child and whether the prejudice (detriment) to them if not admitted outweighs the prejudice to the school in having to accommodate an extra pupil. Social awkwardness around a parent seeing patients at the school is unlikely to be enough to win an appeal, but the argument is stronger if there is a suggestion that the child’s well-being may be at risk (such as bullying).

None of the appeals I have heard which raised similar issues concerned GPs. In all of them (as far as I can remember) the local authority’s representative offered to work with the families to find a place in an alternative school which would meet their concerns.

Even if they did (and legally, parents have to be allowed to state their reasons for naming a school as a preference), unless the school in question has an oversubscription criterion including the situation - 'exceptional medical / social' might, but by no means all schools include this criterion in their admissions policy - no notice would be taken of it when ranking the application.

And if the school did have such a criterion firstly, evidence as to why only this school, on those grounds would have had to be submitted at the time of application and secondly, whoever assesses the information provided by the parent and their supplementary evidence woukd have to agree that the application met the standard to be ranked under that criterion.

School applications can only be considered under the published admissions criteria for a school, and on information known to the admission authority (be it LA / governing body or whatever) at the time of application. At appeal, issues influencing the parents wish for a school place, which are not covered by the school's published criteria, can be and will be considered.

(However - just like a school now being said to be totally unsuitable, based on a situation which already obtained at the time of application, turning out to have been e.g. second preference on the appellant’s CAF - not having mentioned something already known to the parent to be vitally important, and the school in question having a relevant criterion, only mentioning it at appeal, might also not unnaturally cause a bit of a sideways glance, so to speak).

Exactly.

Appeals provide an opportunity to raise issues or concerns which don’t ‘fit’ within the school’s admissions criteria. Not all schools have a category for social and medical need and, even where they do, they require robust evidence.

My DD had a school friend who joined her (full) class mid year because one of her parents was a police officer investigating a serious crime committed by another family at her previous school. But I think there was a definite threat to her safety and she needed to be quite a distance away for that reason. You've nothing to lose by trying though OP.
That said, there are lots of people with what might be considered sensitive jobs whose children go to school alongside the children of their clients, patients etc so I wouldn't worry too much. I can count on one hand the number of parents of my 3 children's secondary school friends I have met, other than those I knew beforehand. It's so different to primary school. I hope you get what you think is best but it might not be as bad as you fear if you don't

Is your home and the primary school outside the practice catchment?