UKMT maths challenges - how to?

[justanotherdaduser]

Would like to understand how children who do well in the UKMT maths challenges (junior, intermediate etc) prepare, whether they prepare at all etc

DD (year 8) is okayish in maths - in top set and get usually 85% and over in class exams, but not innately brilliant (in my opinion)

I used to teach her maths in primary, specifically for 11plus preparation, but have stopped since end of year 6.

The teaching in class is focused on breadth first, quickly moving from one topic to another, not spending enough time on any one topic to develop deeper understanding. I think the school aims to iterate over these same topics repeatedly for the next few years before GCSE.

For example, I think most of the class can solve simultaneous equation of two variables, but will probably struggle with a third variable and likely to struggle with a complexly worded problem where sentences may not easily be translated into simultaneous equations.

So DD struggles with the UKMT challenges - about the first 50% of the questions are doable, she finds the later half harder.

I feel there is benefit in doing these papers - encourages out of box thinking, helps in developing much deeper understanding of the topic, builds resiliency etc. I am encouraging her to do them seriously (school makes all top set students take the UKMT challenges), but also conflicted that maybe I shouldn't push too hard because unsure whether these problem solving skills are meant to come naturally.

Question is - if your DC does (or did) well in these challenges, did they prepare specifically for such types of questions? Or was school work enough for them to do well?

"never realised people would prepare for this- thought it was just something mathematically able kids enjoyed doing"

Perhaps the Mathematically able kids just enjoy practicing and preparing these questions, that is how they get improved overtime.

Yes I think that's true Preplex the best at these competitions have naturally ability and could probably get Gold and Kangaroo with no prep but enjoy it so much they do some practice which they enjoy. Schools don't mention it but kids do if they enjoy it. My DS cried when state school stopped it, he's asd and hates sport, it was the only thing he enjoyed at school. The year DD spent at a girls grammar they did no prep for it but think the boys ones do, quite sad that girls still aren't encouraged. And despite DD getting into top 120 in UK nobody at her comp said congratulations or mentioned it, it seen as far below sports or drama.

The top uni courses can be as high as 35 to 1 with many at all A stars. You don't need these comps but when 20 people for 1 place have all A stars they have to differentiate somehow. Oxbridge puts little weight on it but the skills being able to research and self teach helped DD get in and being self-motivated. The LSE puts much more weight on personal statements, I am not keen on that as it can favour the child with the wealthier parents but UKMT is run in many state schools and doesn't cost any money to enter and most schools offer to all in top set so everyone has a chance. But making an uninterested child who never mentions the competitions do them is a waste of time, they are looking for people who love maths and are self-motivated and interviews will pick this up. Much better for the child who loves sport to do sport but the child who loves maths isn't inferior even if made to feel that way at school.

Thank you so much for the helpful post @ncsurrey22 . We are going to give this a go, especially Dr Frost

@justanotherdaduser ds has been going through some past papers and watching videos on mathsaurus.com (more so about the last few questions). DS has always really enjoyed maths- started to find it too easy in secondary school, but this challenge has helped bring that enjoyment back!

My DD who is in year 5 (state primary) took part in this at 8am this morning! A few kids from years 5 and 6 were picked to do it. Is this crazy - it looks very hard. What would be a reasonable score to expect them to get?

They are all working at greater depth in maths but have not yet covered anything like a lot of these questions.

@Bear2014 DD took it last year when she was in Year 5 and she got bronze along with a few others from her class. If you look at the paper, they only need to get around 11 questions right from the first 15 to get bronze and even getting `14-15 correct out of 25 would get them a silver. I think taking part in Year 5 is mostly as a challenge and to get used to the question type but a few children in the top set should be able to get a bronze, and those who are already preparing for the 11+ might even get something higher. I assume most Year 5s take part and miss out on bronze but can use the experience for year 6.

Does anyone know when results come out?

@Chilto according to ds results out 2-6 weeks time 🤷🏽‍♀️

@Bear2014 definitely good if they'll be sitting 11+
I don't know for sure, but I believe there is the primary challenge for primary school, and the junior one is aimed at secondary school kids (years7-9).

@Chilto I think it depends if they sat the online version (fast results) or pencil and paper (takes forever).

Thanks, that's interesting. DD won't be sitting any kind of 11+ as we are fortunate enough to have a great comp around the corner. As such she has had no tuition at all so will be interesting to see how she gets on. And she may be keen to give it another bash in future years.

She did say she realised on the way out she had got one wrong, something about eye colour and being left handed. Bless her!

DD struggled last year with the one she did in Y7. She is dyslexic and found the wording very confusing despite being in top set and never getting under 90% in the set tests in school. It's frustrating for her as she doesn't do as well as she could in them. It worries me the GCSE questions might be similar so we are working on breaking them down with her SEN at the moment - often a paragraph question switching from numbers to naming numbers in writing can throw her or make her forget a step which I hadn't realised before.

The Math Challenge and Olympiad differ significantly from the GCSE. While one assesses problem-solving skills, the other evaluates knowledge. Particularly with Olympiad questions, achieving a high GCSE score doesn't necessarily ensure reaching the Olympiad stage. I know someone who gained admission to Cambridge for maths despite scoring 0 in the BMO2.

I disagree. Both my DS got silver or gold every year. We never did any practice with them, it was all done through (comprehensive) school

My DS did absolutely nothing to prepare, he just saw as something not important. To be honest I wasn’t even aware it was something people did revise for. He is generally good at maths though and got gold (Yr11).

My son, year 8 said he had done a maths test last week ( all the top sets did). He then did another test today, but fewer children than last week. About 30 children. They were told not to discuss it before Saturday…..

Does this sound like UKMT challenge? I’ve heard absolutely nothing about it from school, so I’m guessing maybe it’s something else? Someone kindly answered a thread I started and suggested it could have been this challenge.

Sounds like a UKMT junior maths challenge (especially the one today), but I am not sure about the test last week. As far as I know, there should have been just one today.

Also not sure about the pirpose of 'no discussion before Saturday' bit..

Well it has been suggested that last week was a practise test to pick the children to actually do the challenge.

Yes I don’t understand that If everyone does the challenge on the same day…. Tbh, I wouldn’t be surprised if he imagined that bit.

Edit: Serves me right for not reading the whole thread, just clocked it has been and gone today!

I don't think mandatory coaching would be useful. I did these as a child and did limited prep outside class. But not no prep - I might do a couple of past papers etc but honestly it was mainly for fun.

But I did really enjoy maths and I would do it in my every day life.

If she does fancy some practice then that would be great. My usual technique for maths exams (which never failed me) is first do papers without timing and with access to a text book (update for resources of your choice). Get happy enough (not perfect) and then switch to closed book but no time limit. Then add the time limit. Obviously it works best with plenty of past papers but I found it built things up simply and logically and it's the only maths revision I have ever done.

The "don't discuss before Sat" is because different time zones do it after the UK, and the deadline for uploading answer sheets is midnight tomorrow.

Yes, the maths test today, with only a small selection of kids is very likely to be the Junior maths challenge (assuming Y8 or below!)

Yes, year 8 for mine.

So can I assume that out of his peers, he must have done pretty well to be put through to the challenge?

Never done anything for DD who is just naturally gifted at most subjects, especially maths and science.

She is at an independant school and last year, when she was in year 6 (primary) her head of maths in primary got her in on a spare year 7 / 8 place.

She got gold / through to next level and best in school in year 6!!!!

So yes, she beat the top maths students in years 7 and 8 in year 6!!!!

We did not prepare her..... she just naturally gets stuff like maths.... (she was confident with numbers up to 100 before her 3rd birthday)

Sadly today she was off school unwell, but I took her in for an hour to defend her title, but also today, her sister who is now in year 6 was taking it too.

We had an interesting chat at dinner tonight going through the questions they can remember.
Myself and DH (we both did A level maths, he did further maths A level too) were trying to work out the harder questions ourselves!

I loved doing Maths challenge at school, as did DH, 30 ish years ago!!!!! (my highest was a silver, while DD went straight in with gold and best in school and through to maths kangeroo while still at primary school!)

.

My daughter loves maths, she loves the problem solving maths which is ukmt. She never started training until year 8 and first qualified for Junior Olympiad in year 8 by starting to practise from ukmt books, since then she has been using these books almost everyday. I bought them here:

https://ukmt.org.uk/textbooks

She now also practises these books(intermediate and contest training):

https://artofproblemsolving.com/store

Its similar to music and sport, it needs practice and passion. She was invited to Queens camp, qualified for BMO2 and was awarded gold for Maclaurin Olympiad (a medal and book prize and also means top 20 at her age in the UK). She also has a mentor from ukmt who coaches her and catching up with her training(free). Looking up, she might never make it to IMO in the next couple of years as there are so many better mathematicians however its possible for self training to reach to some high level.