I think old school lied about my daughter being expelled. Should I complain?

[Girlmum2024]

Hi everyone,

I am an old poster but given the sensitive nature of this I am posting anonymously. Hope that is ok.

My daughter is in Year 8 and moved to a new school at the beginning of the year. We moved her from her old school as it was one problem after another with the education and pastoral care. She is autistic and had a number of additional needs and her behaviour was becoming unmanageable - in and out of school. The head and senior leaders were in our view unsupportive of the challenges and we felt were desperately trying to encourage us to leave by being deliberately unhelpful. As soon as we found a place at another school that we were keen on we grabbed it. The head made no attempt to hide his glee.

The new school has been largely fantastic and she has progressed immeasurably academically. Behaviour wise things are much better - the school have strict and very clear boundaries and this has made all the difference.

However, we'd heard from more than one person that the head had communicated with another parent that he had expelled our daughter. He is an ego maniac and often likes to talk about his authority and "power" to expel. We believed the story as it was exactly the kind of thing he would do. But we were not overly bothered - parents like to gossip and judge and I am fine with that. Our friends know the truth and what we were dealing with and I refused to get worked up about it.

However, now the settling in period has been and gone by daughter has been playing up again. Nothing like before, but enough to be getting her after school detentions. She has been getting into trouble and being yelled at by the deputy, the head and a number of staff that if she doesn't knuckle down she will be "expelled" again. So we have started to wonder what exactly was said in the handover notes but we've also assumed our daughter is exaggerating as it simply doesn't make sense that they would all repeat something that is not true. In fact if it were true then even more unlikely to my mind that they would mention it.

So the last time it happened a few weeks ago, I called the deputy who'd been the one to make the comment that time, and I asked her very calmly and nicely about what was going on and why my daughter would say that these comments had been made to her. To my surprise she immediately apologised, said she'd lost her temper and had gone too far but gave me her word it would never happen again. I was quite taken aback but accepted her apology and said I'd be happy to meet her to discuss any concerns in the future so that we could work together. I was so surprised that I didn't even stop to say "why would you even say that".

But it has happened again. Once by the head who screamed at her about an incident last week - he apparently mentioned her being expelled and said "your parents were not honest about why you left your last school". My daughter said she was confused and started explaining some of the reasons she left and the head apparently put his hand up and said "just stop talking". So since the weekend I have been toying with calling him but I just haven't wanted to create any drama when things have been so calm.

I have now had my daughter on the phone sobbing after yet a further comment again from the deputy head. Apparently a bunch of them were being rowdy in the lunch line and she screamed the insult at her saying no wonder they kicked you out your last school. She was sobbing saying she doesn't know why they keep saying it and now it is in front of her friends. Feel really upset for her.

So my questions:

1. How can I find out what the old school said when they transferred her data which no doubt they had to do?
2. Should I call a meeting with the current school to get to the bottom of it?
3. If the old school have lied verbally or in writing, is this legal and do I have any recourse? On one hand I wouldn't put it past the old head but don't want the aggravation of challenging it, but now by daughter is having this constantly thrown at her and she is so distraught about it I feel I have no choice.
4. What is current school playing at? They have been incredible in so many ways and we've been so happy there but what is this about? It seems so cruel, even if it were true.

Do a subject access request to both her new school and her old one.

Also ask to meet formally with the SLT at the new school - with a view that if you are not satisfied, a formal complaint would be the next step.
No matter what the reason they think she left her last school, they should not be commenting on it in front of other students - this is a blatant breach of her right to privacy.
If the deputy head is losing her temper and speaking out of turn, the school needs to consider how they are managing staff wellbeing!

But alongside this, you perhaps need to sit down with your DD to talk about why the behaviour is escalating? Is the support in place - is it the right support? What are the triggers for poor behaviour and how can you both work on that?

Ensure your DD knows you have her back regarding the staff but also that she has a responsibility to work on the things she can control.

Thank you. This sounds sensible. Honestly, I can't face having a fight. I know the reason things escalated at the last school and why the head wanted her gone was because we had gone down the formal complaint route - and we were massively penalised for it. It's awful to say but I know it's true. But you are right, need to face it.

Rather than making a subject access request I am minded to start with asking for a meeting and seeing what they will share with me. When we went for the interview the head was on leave so we never met him and it was all very informal and tick box so there was never any in depth discussion about why we left.

It may have been phrased that she was asked to leave the previous school, (or she left by mutual agreement) ie, if she didn't she might/would have been expelled. You need to meet with the new head and ask to see exactly what was written.

As advised above, Subject Access Request if the head won't share the original transfer information.

Although I wonder how long it will be before schools cotton on that there is an exemption in the DPA for confidential references and start refusing to disclose transfer information.

If they refuse to transfer then I guess they will need to explain the comments that are being made.

A confidential reference of "she was a nightmare and we were glad she left, she is better off with a fresh start elsewhere" is different to "she was expelled" and should be handled sensitively. Well both scenarios should be. I don't think I even care what was said - the old head was simply vile but I had hoped to build good relationships at this school and I am sad that this is not panning out with this hanging over us and that my daughter is having to suffer for it.

I think it is appalling that her new school would even be mentioning her being expelled from a previous school even if they believe it to be true.

Me too. But I feel so scarred from our experience at the last school I just can't face more confrontation. It seems so obviously wrong but I am terrified of it blowing up in our face if we dare complain. Possibly pathetic but it's how I am feeling.

No I get that completely, you feel like you are running out of options. Having a meeting in person and calmly explaining that it is inappropriate to say these things to your daughter, especially in front of other pupils, could be useful though.

Both schools sound dreadful. Where in the behaviour management plan is screaming at students?

It’s highly unprofessional to tell a child that their dps lied - by all means challenge the dps but leave the dc out of it.

My autistic dc is scrupulously honest (to a very difficult degree) and would be very disturbed by the inaccuracy or suggestion of lying.

I think you should request a copy of the handover notes and request a meeting to clarify this issue. It doesn’t have to be a row (though you’re well within your rights to have one).

This seems utterly bizarre and unprofessional on the part of the school to be routinely screaming at your daughter, and bringing being expelled into it.

There are processes for permanent exclusion that need to be followed and you can't just go threatening kids with permanent exclusion if these processes haven't been followed.

I would recommend an urgent and formal meeting with the headteacher to discuss

1. why they think that your daughter was expelled from her previous school when this is not true

2. why they are threatening to expel her and what processes are being followed particularly as she has SEN and if they are not meeting her needs then this would be grounds for appeal.

I would also suggest making an official complaint about the deputy head discussing her expulsion (even if not true) from the previous school in front of pupils.

I agree the behaviour of these senior teachers seems bizarre. Just what is your daughter doing that’s getting all of these supposedly well trained staff so angry?

Interesting what you say about your DC and inaccuracy - mine too. She is beside herself, especially now it was in front of her friends. She has told me she is being put in isolation all day tomorrow for answering back to the deputy head after she made the comment today she told me she responded with " you have no right to keep talking about my old school, I came here to forget about it and you keep mentioning it on purpose to make my life that bit worse than yours. I hate you". 😔

It's this kind of answering back and incensed anger that gets her into trouble so makes it hard to back her up because it then sounds like I am defending her actions. But I get so frustrated with the schools for pushing her buttons as well! FFS

Permanent exclusion records are official, the new school would know this. Did you go through a managed transfer process. What has your daughter actually been doing ?

What on earth kind of schools are these where senior leadership including the head are routinely screaming and shouting at students?!

She struggles with things like organisation, time keeping, uniform and staying focused and she'll get multiple detentions for these things. We are making progress but its slow. But what ultimately gets her into trouble is her response to being constantly reprimanded. She answers back and is extremely rude - an angel with a heart of gold if she thinks you are on your side - but if not she loses control. Example above is a case in point. I am so tired of it and just want to cry.

At parents evening I asked the head of behaviour if they could offer her some mentoring/coaching to help better manage her frustrations/emotions. He said it was a good idea and would look into it but I have not heard anything since.

No it wasn't a managed transfer. We'd applied about 6 months earlier to the school she is at and were on a waiting list and eventually a place came up. We emailed the old head once we had a place to say she would be leaving at the end of term and he just replied with "thank you for letting me know"

What do you mean by permanent exclusion records are official? Do you mean with the local authority?

I mean they can’t lie about someone being perm ex’d, it’s a lengthy and expensive process.

Unless it’s for an extremely serious offence - eg knives, it’s a lengthy process with many stages that have to be gone through - exclusions of various lengths, managed transfers etc, everything has to be documented, the paper trail is immense

I’m sorry you are having such stress from your daughter’s schools. My son is diagnosed ASD/ADHD and I see similarities in what you are describing. I have had a lot of communication with my son’s school over the 7 months he has been there (he is year 7) I have been in to speak with them many times and made numerous requests for support/action (I.e. seating changes when he is sat by a triggering pupil).
I try to make all my contact with them as positive as possible, highlighting the best things they are doing and ‘discussing’ the things I’m not happy about. I always frame it as mr and school working in partnership for the shared goal that is the education of my son. I feel it is working well and they have been very responsive to my communication.

My advice would therefore be by all means do a SAR to the old school, but try open communication with the new school before you do anything else. Frame it as though you want to understand what is going wrong, what can be done to put it right, you’ve been so pleased with the initial settling in and her progress, it would be a shame to undo it all, so how do we get back on track. Share with them what is upsetting your daughter (which I think anyone would be upset by!) and try to have a calm and honest discussion about it all, with an approach that you’re on the same side in this, your daughter’s.

On terms of what is the old school playing at - it sounds like human failings to me. If you speak with them, ask to meet and discuss it and continue your calm and nice approach then hopefully they’ll start to think twice before yelling at her again. And perhaps if they can stop pressing her buttons they’ll get less of the behaviour that causes them to yell!
Good luck!

Thank you for this. That has made me relax a bit then on the part of the old school, makes sense!

It's this kind of answering back and incensed anger that gets her into trouble

But oh so understandable in the circumstances - it does sound as if at least one member of staff has decided to goad her.

Apologies if I've missed something, but are we talking about state schools here, or independent?

If your DD had been permanently excluded by her previous school they would have had to officially notify you in writing. You'd know about it!

I’m guessing that the new school were not informed by yourself that your DD was having problems at her old school, and she was admitted as a regular in-year admission? If that’s the case, then your DD has been set up to fail.
Schools do not use terms like ‘expelled’. The correct terminology is exclusion. An exclusion can be fixed term for a specified time, which can then be made into a permanent exclusion which the Governors should agree to.

Before you go in all guns blazing, ask for a meeting to include a senior leader, form tutor, pastoral lead plus the SENCo. Listen to what they say about the incidents. Remember, there’s their side of the story, there’s your DDs side of the story and there’s the actual truth.

Just a word of warning OP - my ds and all his (late teen) friends used "screaming" and "shouting" when they meant "being told off". These words don't seem to have quite the same meaning to their generation as ours.

Perhaps, but for a member of staff to be mentioning in a 'public' setting the fact that they believe the OP's DD to have been permanently excluded from her previous school, let alone appearing to use this against her is still, to put it politely, wrong.