I think old school lied about my daughter being expelled. Should I complain?

[Girlmum2024]

Hi everyone,

I am an old poster but given the sensitive nature of this I am posting anonymously. Hope that is ok.

My daughter is in Year 8 and moved to a new school at the beginning of the year. We moved her from her old school as it was one problem after another with the education and pastoral care. She is autistic and had a number of additional needs and her behaviour was becoming unmanageable - in and out of school. The head and senior leaders were in our view unsupportive of the challenges and we felt were desperately trying to encourage us to leave by being deliberately unhelpful. As soon as we found a place at another school that we were keen on we grabbed it. The head made no attempt to hide his glee.

The new school has been largely fantastic and she has progressed immeasurably academically. Behaviour wise things are much better - the school have strict and very clear boundaries and this has made all the difference.

However, we'd heard from more than one person that the head had communicated with another parent that he had expelled our daughter. He is an ego maniac and often likes to talk about his authority and "power" to expel. We believed the story as it was exactly the kind of thing he would do. But we were not overly bothered - parents like to gossip and judge and I am fine with that. Our friends know the truth and what we were dealing with and I refused to get worked up about it.

However, now the settling in period has been and gone by daughter has been playing up again. Nothing like before, but enough to be getting her after school detentions. She has been getting into trouble and being yelled at by the deputy, the head and a number of staff that if she doesn't knuckle down she will be "expelled" again. So we have started to wonder what exactly was said in the handover notes but we've also assumed our daughter is exaggerating as it simply doesn't make sense that they would all repeat something that is not true. In fact if it were true then even more unlikely to my mind that they would mention it.

So the last time it happened a few weeks ago, I called the deputy who'd been the one to make the comment that time, and I asked her very calmly and nicely about what was going on and why my daughter would say that these comments had been made to her. To my surprise she immediately apologised, said she'd lost her temper and had gone too far but gave me her word it would never happen again. I was quite taken aback but accepted her apology and said I'd be happy to meet her to discuss any concerns in the future so that we could work together. I was so surprised that I didn't even stop to say "why would you even say that".

But it has happened again. Once by the head who screamed at her about an incident last week - he apparently mentioned her being expelled and said "your parents were not honest about why you left your last school". My daughter said she was confused and started explaining some of the reasons she left and the head apparently put his hand up and said "just stop talking". So since the weekend I have been toying with calling him but I just haven't wanted to create any drama when things have been so calm.

I have now had my daughter on the phone sobbing after yet a further comment again from the deputy head. Apparently a bunch of them were being rowdy in the lunch line and she screamed the insult at her saying no wonder they kicked you out your last school. She was sobbing saying she doesn't know why they keep saying it and now it is in front of her friends. Feel really upset for her.

So my questions:

1. How can I find out what the old school said when they transferred her data which no doubt they had to do?
2. Should I call a meeting with the current school to get to the bottom of it?
3. If the old school have lied verbally or in writing, is this legal and do I have any recourse? On one hand I wouldn't put it past the old head but don't want the aggravation of challenging it, but now by daughter is having this constantly thrown at her and she is so distraught about it I feel I have no choice.
4. What is current school playing at? They have been incredible in so many ways and we've been so happy there but what is this about? It seems so cruel, even if it were true.

I would also request a meeting with the sendco. It sounds like DD is being punished for executive function difficulties and a lack of filter in her communication. Both of which are likely symptoms of her autism. So they need to put a plan in place to support those things specifically. I would go through the behaviour issues with them and ask for an ilp with support in those areas. This is what they should.he doing anyway!

I have on more than one occasion (when supporting other parents!) gone through a schools behaviour policy with a highlighter and marked up all the things that ASD cannot do as a symptom of their MEDICAL diagnosis (or whatever send is appropriate). That sometimes helps to focus the mind. Along with a reminder that reasonable adjustments are part of the Sen code of conduct - not a "we must treat everyone the same to be fair to all" policy....

If you are having a meeting with the school, get copies of their discipline, behaviour, SEND and equality policies beforehand and read through them. Given your daughter's diagnoses, she qualifies as disabled and it sounds to me very much as if the school is breaking disability discrimination laws and won't be complying with their own policies. Be prepared with some polite but pointed questions about that.

If they really do think she was excluded from her last school, they are breaking their duty of confidentiality in talking about it in front of other pupils, and given that it's untrue that is even more serious. Frankly, the whole things is grossly unprofessional.

Does your daughter have an EHCP? If not, think seriously about asking for an EHC needs assessment.

I was so sad reading this, OP. And the punishment does seem rather harsh considering the 'crime'. Isolation all day for answering back? What makes it worse - and would infuriate me - is that your poor DD was right in what she said. (Probably could have gone without saying that she hated them, but she is a young teen, so that bit is understandable if not appropriate.)

I think a lot of the solutions suggested by others - reviewing the school's various policies and asking for a meeting - are the way to go and I hope the situation improves quickly.

Does she have an ehcp?

'Answering back' is very typical of ND kids. But I wish people would recognise their honesty! My ND son doesn't lie, he says it like it is, yes it comes across as rude at times or disrespectful, but he sees being shouted at as being disrespectful, so in his ND mind why shouldn't he call it out? When he is treated respectfully he is the sweetest, most polite boy, but get frustrated at him over things he can't help (ADHD related) then he will question it, and this is seen as disrespectful.

I wouldn’t be surprised these events were perceived quite differently by other people involved in the incidents.
There is a greater picture to discuss anyway if this is the second school that struggles to cope with your daughter’s behavior, despite having made a big effort initially.

If she has ASD then she is on SEN register. All incidents are recorded there including how she impacts her class year. The exclusion info could have been also included there. The SEN records are transferred to the next school.

In my humble opinion you should forget if there is any gossiping etc behind it. You have a problem with your daughter behaviour. Ideally she should have EHCP plan because of her behaviour and she should have an accompanying assistant during breaks. Your daughter should have ongoing CAMHS monitoring and meetings with the psychologist (even private). You could consider private specialist school. There are in bigger cities state schools that have division for kids with mild ASD.
I think your focus should be how to find a place where your daughter and is accepted and can grow but not playing detective who said what and why because it drains you from energy and you need it to handle your daughter for the years to come. These people are not relevant. Respect yourself and look for optimal solution even if it includes moving

They may well be perceived differently by people who don't understand neurodiversity, but obviously that simply means they have a mistaken perception. The big issue really is why both schools have failed in terms of seeking and giving support for OP's daughter.

It seems quite clear that the old HT has at the very least given the impression that your DD was expelled @Girlmum2024. That would seem a clear cut case of defamation: 'Defamation is where a statement is made, either orally or in writing, to a third party, in such a way as to damage, or be likely to damage, the reputation of the subject of the comment.' If this exists in writing anywhere you should ask for it to be corrected and if only spoken you should request it be retracted.

Of course the new school should absolutely not be throwing this in your DD's face – and I personally would take the strongest possible exception to, in effect, be accused of lying. But none of that would have happened without the actions of the old HT.

As a parent of an autistic teen myself, I feel there are a few things going on here that I would be worried about.
Your DD is only in Yr8 and it sounds like she is struggling with secondary. She's already had one school placement break down and it sounds like there are issues developing now with her second school.

I'm not saying the school in question would do this but some, sadly some do try and 'manage out' DC who they feel don't fit in with their ethos/require additional support etc.

Her numerous detentions sound like they may not be making 'reasonable adjustments' for her. I am concerned that she's not getting the support she requires in order to flourish at school. As of course you know, the pressures will only ramp up as she heads into KS4.

If you're in England, have you considered applying for an EHCP? You can apply for one yourself (I did). As part of the needs assessment process, your DD will be seen by several professionals including an educational psychologist who can identify practical steps to help your DD manage school - and what the school need to do to support her.
If you need to appeal at every stage you could be looking at a year or more so I would really get the ball rolling now so things are in place for the GCSE years.

I would push for a meeting with the school Senco to talk through the difficulties your DD is experiencing. Document everything and make sure there's a paper trail. Discuss applying for an EHCP. See what the Senco's reaction is. You can tell a lot about a school's ethos from how they respond.

Ipsea has some good guides. They also operate a free helpline (although it can be very difficult to get through).

https://www.ipsea.org.uk/Pages/Category/get-support

Yes to this.

A subject access request is like a freedom of information request but only available to the person named in the documentation. So you can request it for any information communicated between the schools about your daughter, on her behalf as she's a minor. Make sure you put the request in to both institutions.

Also make sure you include in the request all correspondence both between schools and also to parents. You need to be able to prove that you were never informed about an exclusion process - ie it never happened.

Also, does the school have an educational psychologist? If so, make sure that you ask for a meeting. Whatever the background, this is not a way for the SLT to handle discipline. Shame-based bollockings will not improve the situation one bit! I don't think the EP would back this approach.

Ps: if you don't want to rock the boat maybe start the subject access request with the old school, so they don't know.

If you start with a warning they might pre-emptivelyndelete stuff (which is illegal, but not unlikely tbh)

Ideally she should have EHCP plan because of her behaviour and she should have an accompanying assistant during breaks. Your daughter should have ongoing CAMHS monitoring and meetings with the psychologist (even private). You could consider private specialist school.

I take it you don’t have a child with Autism? The idea of CAMHS being interested in monitoring autistic children and providing regular psychologist meetings is particularly ‘amusing’.

A SAR to the old school definitely (it would have to be your daughter who does this as she is over 12). But your new school - I would ask for a meeting with the head. Don’t go on your own, take your DH or if he isn’t available then a friend who can just listen in quietly. Approach the meeting positively, about wanting support the school to support your DD. Start with praise where it is due, what has gone well. Then ask why there seems to be a belief that your DD was excluded from her last school and where this might have come from.

I am a teacher and a parent, and I agree with the other posts. It is unprofessional and they are damaging their relationship with your daughter. I understand how exhausting it is to complain to schools. I'd suggest you put it in an email, so you have a paper trail and also you don't need to deal with the stress of a meeting. You sound very very balanced and fair so I think you will make your point well.

Thank you to everyone who has taken the time to respond to this thread. Have read them all and appreciate the replies - some really helpful suggestions. My daughter doesn't have an ECHP as we have previously been told by the Ed Psych she had at her old school (that we paid for privately) that it was unlikely that she would get one as her symptoms are not severe enough. I don't know if I agree now given the continued struggles and I am actively looking into that now.

To those that said there is a behaviour problem - this is undoubtedly true and addressing that is my primary concern - so that she can ultimately thrive. I just need to school to work with me and support me and her so that I can support them and in turn her. I just wish it didn't always feel like and us v them problem.

By way of update: the deputy called me after I sent a note asking for a meeting. I suspect she knew what it was about and called me late in the evening (which I found odd, but I didn't mind, much better timing for me than in the school day) and seemed keen to address what was on my mind. She danced around the issue of what she actually said and suggested that she was only commenting on the fact that my daughter had clearly moved schools for a fresh start and she (my daughter) was hindering that by her behaviour. We left it that she would come back to me with some dates to meet with her in person and the SEN team.

The very next morning before I had even woken up the head had emailed and said he understood I had been in touch with concerns and asked me if I could come in to chat things through. So my husband and I are meeting him in a couple of weeks. I have kept a note of all calls and incidents if I need to follow up in writing - I know I will just find that very draining to do that.

I’m glad the school are engaging but a couple of weeks is a long time to wait, and honestly sounds like another example of the school being a bit shit.

Ds’ school has been brilliant - and I’m not saying this to be goady, but to the make the point that approaches vary. His primary school wasn’t, and I just wouldn’t have known any different if the secondary had been like yours.

To give an example, Ds had an exchange with the deputy principal last year too, and the man listened, acknowledged the validity and truth of his statement, and de-escalated. My ears were burning when I heard about it, and I got ticked off for failing to understand that the school encourages the kids to communicate respectfully, by listening and not by shutting them down. He even acknowledged that he hadn’t thought about it that way and ds told him “well you wouldn’t because you have a neurotypical brain”.

DS struggles with organisation, timekeeping, homework and gets support, not detentions.

Are you connected to any support groups in your area? Other parents are a great source of advice on which schools to avoid. And will help prop you up when you’re going to battle!

Have you tried contacting an education support service such as SEN National Advice service or Snap Cymru( Wales)

They will help you and ensure you or your child is not penalised for any complaints x