School uncomfortable with DCs work experience placement.

[charliepaytonsmum]

So my daughter (15) has chosen to do her work experience (placement not with school, we arranged it ourselves, which is allowed) she has chosen to go to a funeral home, for a few reasons and non of them particularly morbid. She thinks it's important to understands what happens to your body after you die and how death is handled because (her words) nobody talks about it but thats because maybe they don't know them selves. She thinks it's important to be aware and understand as to not be so afraid of death. She also hates that fact that's its a very male dominated industry and even in today's society its rare for funeral homes to employ women, especially the old family run ones. The funeral home she will be attending is female owned and run (and the ownder is a good friend of my Aunt), and it is the only female owned funeral home in the city and as far as I know surrounding areas. She's wants to learn from this owner in particular as she was rejected by every funeral home in our city when she first started out so decided to open her own. My daughter is not looking to satisfy some morbid curiosity, she really believes that this is an important fact of life that everyone should know and its all very matrer of fact and scientific for her. We went to the funeral home for an informal chat and look around to make sure she was comfortable in the environment and was comfortable discussing her expectations and reasons why she wanted to do this, all without my input or help. School said they were uncomfortable with it and don't want her to be traumatised but I know the owners aren't going to put her in a traumatic situation and I trust them completely. They said that they weren't sure that she was emotional ready what ever that means, maybe the fact that sometimes at school she gets over stimulated and has had a couple small panic attacks but this is due to crowds, louds noises particularly noise associated with crowds and people, which is obviously not going be be an issue is a small quiet funeral home. I know iv rambled a bit but I suppose my query is can they actually lagally stop her from doing this. In the UK.

Yet they're happy for them to go to care homes where the things they witness may be far more traumatic (even if they're not providing personal care). If the place is happy and you and your daughter are happy, they'll have to lump it I'm afraid. Your daughter sounds amazing, death really is a taboo subject when it shouldn't be. She'll learn a lot.

The only thing I'd consider is when you mention your DD getting over stimulated, is whether this is ever triggered by stress/emotional scenes/nervousness or awkwardness.

I imagine she will not be interacting directly with the bereaved, however she may be present when mourning families come in to discuss arrangements. As long as you feel she is strong enough for this I think it could be a good opportunity.

Whilst I do fully sympathise with people having panic attacks, I don't think I'd feel the same if I was arranging a loved ones funeral.

I can kind of see their point of view, if she comes into contact with dead bodies and grieving people it could be traumatic for her.

Can't help with your exact question but have you or your daughter read Caitlin Dougherty books? She is a mortician in USA. I found her book very interesting

How's does the funeral home deal with putting the additional burden of permission onto the very recently bereaved, do they tell them a 15 year old school child will be present when their loved one is being (for want of a better word) "processed". Not sure I would have been happy for a 15 year old child being present and would have preferred to maintain my loved ones dignity.

Also not sure I would have wanted a random 15 year old in my mums kitchen when talking to the funeral director about arrangements for her funeral while still reeling from her death.

What is your daughter actually going to be doing in this funeral home?

I really don't see a problem with this, I'm sure the funeral home will be sensitive to their clients.

I think if she's interested then why not, she's ovously aware that there will be dead bodies and greaving relatives.

In theory, this could be fine, but I would be very interested to see Risk Assessment that the funeral home are completing, and you should ask to see it. It should note possible psychological issues on there (i.e. from your child seeing/speaking about death) and you would also get a better idea of what she will be doing/ how the home plan to control, from that document.

My initial thought was I agree with the school. But on reflection, she could work in this industry at 16 when she leaves school - so a year earlier isn't going to make much difference. You / the owner seem to have thought this through and visited the home prior to her starting. This work experience could also open doors to other employment avenues - medical, forensic sciences, etc which she might be interested in too. I did work experience with a Vet and saw eyes being popped out in surgery, pets being put to sleep, etc - obviously not the same, but still fairly full on and having a real life experience of the role / responsibilities was really beneficial.

I'd ask for a meeting with the school and tell them everything that has been put in place and done to enable it to be a positive experience. If still a no, ask them directly whether legally they can prevent it.

I work in the funeral business, not at a funeral home but closely associated with them, it can be hard and a lot of people who work there end up leaving or having mental health issues because they can't leave behind the things that they have to deal with on a daily basis, it's incredibly emotionally challenging at times.

I think it's one of those things that you don't know how you're going to react until you're faced with something, and after that it's already too late to wish to you hadn't seen it/known about, so you have to be sure that she will be able to handle things like being in the presence of grieving families or talking matter of factly about death and dead bodies and how they are processed.

I'm sure they will be able to find her things to do that won't put her in a vulnerable position, or have her actively interact with bereaved people, but they won't be able to shield her entirely and they will expect a certain level of conduct, so if you think she can handle it then it may be a good learning experience.

If the school aren’t satisfied with the risk assessment then they will be able to refuse.

A girl in my school did her work experience at a funeral home in year 11. She didn’t go on to pursue it as a career but had an interesting week where she learnt a lot.

I guess from the schools point of view they will be worrying about her possibly seeing people who have died in a traumatic way or a child.

Other PPs have a fair point on the impact of grieving families though and a school child being around not being great for them.

As an aside I took a group of year 11 students to a medicine outreach trip Operating Theatre live or similar I can't remember the exact group. We routinely did dissections of heart, lungs and eyeballs (by product of meat industry) as part of the syllabus. So the 'gore' factor shouldn't be an issue as it's part and parcel of science teaching

I oversee work experience placements for teenagers. I would be very surprised if a risk assessment allowed under-18s to do a work placement in a funeral home. I would expect the following concerns to be raised:

Health and safety - dangerous equipment and chemicals used during embalming process/stored on the premises

Trauma of seeing people who have died unexpectedly, violently or at a young age, or hearing their stories being discussed

The requirement to maintain confidentiality of the deceased person

Inappropriateness of a child being present in discussions with families - their grief is not a learning experience for school-aged child

I don’t think your daughter’s personality comes into it. I think in general this is not appropriate for any child under 18, and I would be surprised if it is allowed.

This is really sensible. With all these caveats, what could your dd do? What's left to do if she doesn't meet grieving families etc?

OP,
My own ÐD did her work experience in a funeral home. It was on the list of places that were provided by the school who offered work experience.
She helped collect deceased people who had died at home, helped with dressing and embalming, attended funerals and cremations.
She found it fascinating. She was schooled in how to present and behave, dress, show respect. It was very professional.
She will never forget the experience and really values the chance she got.
However, this was 11 years ago, she is now just 27, so things might well have changed.
I think she truly appreciated an extraordinary experience and found it more enriching than the 'safer', more 'sanitised' options some of her peers experienced.

If your DD feels up to it, you feel it will be conducted with professionalism for all parties involved, then I would encourage her to pursue it.
Good luck

When I was 17 I did work experience with the local council environmental health team. They decided to do an inspection on the local funeral home and they took me everywhere from the workshop where the coffins were made to the embalming room. It was completely out of the blue. It was one of the most interesting places I have ever been.

You know your dd best, I think it's an interesting choice. BTW there are quite a few female owned or managed ones around here including family owned. Things have changed since I first working in an allied role

As for dangerous chemicals, you should have seen where my DDs did work experience ... school didn't mention dangerous chemicals once, only that the supervisor had a dbs, the supervisor was their dad! (He dutifully got one)

I recall my Year 10 work experience being a lot less hands on than my Year 12 - is she going to be helping to handle the deceased, or looking through coffin catalogues, hoovering the reception area and making tea?

I started my Nurse training age 17 and encountered all of the above. On turning 18 you don't suddenly gain coping mechanisms and manage things differently, you learn from the experienced people you are working with and if they're doing it right they'll have the young person under tight rein for good learning opportunities. They could probably still learn a lot even without being exposed to a dead body or being directly involved with families.
Perhaps 15 is a little young but really I don't see why not. If the funeral home is happy for a young person to be there and learn, I'd expect they'd have thought of how they'd manage all the concerns noted.
Personally, when I visited the funeral directors to discuss plans about my mums funeral, I was just trying to focus on what I had to do. If a young person had been there, discreetly in the background with a supervisor, I'd barely have noticed or cared. Just like work experience kids are on hospital wards. They don't do much, they're observing and learning from the workers.
I think it's a great opportunity for a young person if they have a particular interest. It's a demonstration of how your feelings are not paramount , the deceased and their family are the complete priority. That is a very important lesson in a world where children are expected to check their feelings and possible trauma at every turn. Sometimes, how you get through things is engaging your brain and do what needs to be done. To watch this be done by professionals and how they manage grieving families day in day out would be a privileged learning experience for someone interested in it as a career.
I wanted to do my work experience in a funeral home but I wasn't allowed. I had to do childcare experience instead. Perfectly OK, for a child to be let loose on vulnerable children.

My mum died very recently so my experience of going to a funeral director and organising a funeral happened in the last few weeks. I certainly wouldn't have welcomed a 15 year old in my meetings with the funeral arranger - it was a time of raw grief for me and I wanted someone who was mature enough to understand how I felt.

I also wouldn't have wanted a 15 year old assisting with preparing my mum for her funeral. I wanted my mum to be given respect, dignity and not to be "gawped" at. I know everyone has to learn how to do the job, but that's not what this work experience would be, work experience is not "learning to do the job".

Most young people don't go on to work in the area where they do their work experience. If the OP's daughter really wants to be a funeral director can't she wait until she's old enough to apply for proper training, and until she's got the right level of maturity for the job?

I think the school are right to be flagging it up, don’t say they didn’t warn you.

Hopefully the owner / funeral director will have the foresight to filter what your daughter sees and hears.

What if a child comes in? What if a traumatised old lady wants to view her husband’s body for the last time and breaks down in hysterical tears? Will she have the maturity to cope with that kind of scene?

A 15 year old is a child. An 18 year old is an adult. That’s the difference. It’s not about individual maturity, it’s about legal status. A 17 year old now cannot begin nursing training.

It’s very difficult to get WE placements in hospitals and GP surgeries for the same reasons (I know, as I do it) - usually young people have to be 18, and if they are younger then it’s either not approved or they are very restricted in what they can do. Much easier to get WE in a vets’ practice if they want something medical-related and are not yet 18.

Agree, it will be tricky to appropriately risk assess this and manage the needs if the business alongside a learning experience.