School uncomfortable with DCs work experience placement.

[charliepaytonsmum]

So my daughter (15) has chosen to do her work experience (placement not with school, we arranged it ourselves, which is allowed) she has chosen to go to a funeral home, for a few reasons and non of them particularly morbid. She thinks it's important to understands what happens to your body after you die and how death is handled because (her words) nobody talks about it but thats because maybe they don't know them selves. She thinks it's important to be aware and understand as to not be so afraid of death. She also hates that fact that's its a very male dominated industry and even in today's society its rare for funeral homes to employ women, especially the old family run ones. The funeral home she will be attending is female owned and run (and the ownder is a good friend of my Aunt), and it is the only female owned funeral home in the city and as far as I know surrounding areas. She's wants to learn from this owner in particular as she was rejected by every funeral home in our city when she first started out so decided to open her own. My daughter is not looking to satisfy some morbid curiosity, she really believes that this is an important fact of life that everyone should know and its all very matrer of fact and scientific for her. We went to the funeral home for an informal chat and look around to make sure she was comfortable in the environment and was comfortable discussing her expectations and reasons why she wanted to do this, all without my input or help. School said they were uncomfortable with it and don't want her to be traumatised but I know the owners aren't going to put her in a traumatic situation and I trust them completely. They said that they weren't sure that she was emotional ready what ever that means, maybe the fact that sometimes at school she gets over stimulated and has had a couple small panic attacks but this is due to crowds, louds noises particularly noise associated with crowds and people, which is obviously not going be be an issue is a small quiet funeral home. I know iv rambled a bit but I suppose my query is can they actually lagally stop her from doing this. In the UK.

My sister's mate did this as work experience but was on the admin side of things rather than anything to do with bodies or people. In an office, booking things in like when Mr Jones will be picking up his wife's ashes and stock checking for the shrouds/gowns if people were not being buried in their own clothes, that sort of thing. She did not talk or see any clients, the funeral directors just talked through the process with her. She absolutely loved it and got a lot from it.

Do school realise that there will be children whose parents work in funeral homes and therefore it is just a normal part of their lives? Are they concerned for them? Ds had a child in his class whose parents worked for a funeral home. The Mum did a great business from the playground pick ups as she was known to us all so easy to recommend her and her family business.

I know someone who went to work in a funeral home straight from school when she was 16. It is more about the individual attitude - if your daughter is mature for her age and is interested in this as a profession, I don't see why school should stop her.

The OP doesn't say her daughter is interested in a career in the funeral industry - and at least one of her reasons for wanting this experience borders on the morbid, ie. finding out what happens to the body after death. Also, as a grieving relative I am not an "subject" that the OP's daughter can use to study how people deal with death, and neither is my mum a "subject" so OP's daughter can satisfy her curiosity about death. I find that quite distasteful.

The school are also saying that they don't think that this young person is "emotionally ready", and OP should take notice of this.

I’d say that if the funeral home thinks she’ll be fine, than she can do it. My friend did her work experience in a funeral directors. It was a great experience and she learned a lot. Next year she can literally get a job there.

For a mature girl who has excellent support from the staff, I think it’s a great and unusual opportunity. I think the school are correct in flagging up their concerns but equally they should accept if you have discussed these with the owner and appropriate measures have been put into place to safeguard both the clients and your daughter.
On a side note, when my mum died, I would have been quite happy to have gone through the process with a suitably supervised young person present – she could have definitely have filled in the form from our discussions that said “XX crematorium”, “coffin 1 with silver handles”, “1 family spray on top”etc … I appreciate not everyone would but there are some of us odd people around who would be comfortable with it

Asking for reassurance about what will be required and will be seen is fair enough, but I don't think that the school should object to it.

I did my work experience in a funeral directors. One had the embalming suite at the back and I helped with those. I spent time in a couple of funeral shops, the head office/accounts, the embalming and fridge area and the coffin/woodworking area. Then I had a visit at the pathololgy department at the local hospital.

My school was fine with it and it was on the board of places we could choose from.

I did want to be a pathologist though.

How do you think people learn to become funeral directors? They shadow and use people as 'subjects'. How do you think surgeons and pathologists etc learn? They use cadavers as 'subjects'.

I was about to recommend these. Fascinating. I am currently reading Hayley Campbell's book 'All the living and the dead' - I'm only about a quarter of the way through it but it's really interesting so far. It's something I've always been drawn to, partly due to the kindness of the funeral directors when I lost my parents - it's such an incredibly important role.

If you and your daughter genuinely think she'll cope, then it should be a very rewarding placement for her. If the staff at the funeral home have any concerns, though, they should obviously have the final say.

I would ask the funeral directors to discuss with the school what her placement will look like.

My recent experience when my mother passed was a 90%female team. There were plenty of staff working who were not directly working with families.

There is a lot of organising adminstration and perhaps she may be invited to accompany a staff member when they are not directly with family or deceased.

I'm sure there's plenty of administration to be done, and the company can be sensible about shielding her from anything distressing. As long as they've thought through what they can and can't do with her, there's probably quite a variety of things she can be doing.

Our local funeral director's son was working with them during the holidays when he was 15.

I think your daughter sounds absolutely awesome. If it distresses her in any way she can go home.

Has a risk assessment been done or not? If not, then one will need to be done before the placement starts. If, at that point, the school aren't happy, they can say that the placement is not done during the official school "work experience" week.

However, that wouldn't stop your DD doing a week of informal work experience in the holidays.

It sounds good experience. I am sure the staff will allocate her tasks/observations based on the needs of clients and also how she seems to be coping. As has been said, some schools have this on their list of options.

It is a good point, and also more importantly, which most posters are not considering, the old lady might not feel able to naturally grieve, or feels she has to mask her grief as she doesn't want to upset the child in the room and loses that last chance to say goodbye the way she wanted.

When people are recently bereaved, emotions can run high, anger being one of them. What happens if a customer takes offence at a child there to "experience" death and grief and asks/is upset if she was involved in preparing their loved one?

Obviously I am not a parent with a child interested in funeral directors, or a funeral director, or even the school. But I am someone who has experienced the almost physical pain of loss and the more I think about this the more I am sure I would not want a child gawping at me, or my deceased loved one, I also wouldn't want put on the spot and be asked if someone could "watch".

If she does go for work experience there it would be inappropriate, and selfish, for her to be near anyone's deceased loved ones or the recently bereaved. If they keep her in a back room doing admin, fair enough.

It sounds like a brilliant placement for your DD. Because it's what she is interested in learning about. That is the important part of this.
Stuff the school, they don't know everything and don't get everything right
Back her in following her dreams and her interests, and don't allow the system to indoctrinate her into a box they deem fit.
Wishing her all the best with her placement.

Funnily enough I know more than one person who did their work experience in a funeral home & went on to work there & build their careers around it. Both are absolutely passionate about their work.

I would speak to the owner of the funeral home, find out what he expects her to be doing and then reassure the school if you are reassured yourself!

I literally did this exact work experience placement! For 2 weeks at the end of my Y11. I found it really interesting, and it's not really traumatic - they asked me on my first day whether or not I would like to see a dead body immediately and then just pulled one out of the fridge.
I don't think they can legally stop her if the funeral directors are happy with it? It's also just a business at the end of the day so she can learn that aspect, and also about empathy and as she says - simply what happens!

At 15 I went to work experience in the social work department of a large cancer hospital. They 'allocated' a 15 year old patient to me, to do a case history etc. He died 3 days into my placement. I think it was one of the most educational experiences I had during my school career. Yes, it was very upsetting, but life happens to us all. I think going to a funeral home is a very good choice- even if she doesn't think it's in her future career, we're too removed from death in the UK and I think it will be very beneficial. And as for chemicals, I'm pretty sure she can be trusted not to drink the embalming fluid, I'm sure she doesn't drink the toilet cleaner at home.....

I do not see why a bereaved relative breaking down in tears should be a problem. It is life.

My GC, of assorted ages from about 4, saw me in tears, and their mothers, when my OH died. They were involved in his care, taking him things he needed and letting me know when his catheter bag needed emptying. They were at the funeral and saw us all upset. They learned a lot, shared a lot and lived some normal life with us all. They saw him very shortly before he died when he was unconscious. They learned that it was hard and saw us all find ways of coping. They hugged us and expressed their feelings very openly. They asked questions and were answered honestly.

And now, four years later, they are seeing us all coping in our different ways - we all talk about him.

I think we need to assume that the funeral directors will have the well-being of their clients as their priority and will make sure that the presence of a work experience young person did not cause any detriment to them.

My daughter did her work experience at our local undertakers. She was 14. She found it very interesting and was involved in many activities. Being an old fashioned business they made their own coffins, so she did woodwork, engraving brass nameplates, cloth lining the coffin. She had to clean and polish the hearse.

She attended funerals, had a tour of the crematorium, went to the hospital mortuary to collect bodies, collected and delivered funeral flowers which the family had requested to be delivered to local hospitals for patients to enjoy rather than letting them wither at the graveyard. She saw people laid out in their coffins. The only thing that was not permitted was to witness an embalming - she was told you have to be 18. She was told about the process, however.

Her school was perfectly happy with the placement and she hasn't had any bad memories whatsoever.

Thanks everyone for your replies. Just to clarify we have been upto the funeral home several weeks ago for a talk which included a walk around to see if she's still comfortable in the environment, which she was. To talk about what she expects to learn and do and what they would expect from her. The funeral home already have a risk assessment in place because they already take on work experience pupils and volunteers so no concern there. I also emailed them yesterday to make sure they were still happy with her to attend and they are and are still looking forward to having her there next month. And as for those of you that are worried about grieving families not wanting a child involved. The owner of the funeral director will absolutely put their clients first obviously. They will be up front with customers about having a work experience kid there, then it will be upto the client if they want her around or not, these are professional undertakers not hobbyists. Also somebody said that (or assumed that) she doesn't want to go into this profession and she wanted to just find out what happens when you die, this is categorically incorrect and I ask you don't assume things about my child. She does absolutely want to go into this business. We have been to a few funerals that this particular undertaker has taken on and my daughter was taken with how she (the owner of the funeral directors) was able to comfort so many different people and help them in their grief. She also is very sensible in thinking about the future and says that, and I quote "I know it sounds morbid but death is a business that won't die, so it's a lifetime career and job". Anyway, iv found out the school can't lawfully stop her going there and it's only about 5 teachers that have an issue with it and apparently they are the "problem teachers" that neither students are parents like very much so im guessing they're used to not getting their own way. So she will be going.

I think she is very mature and sounds really empathetic which is exactly the qualities needed if she wants to assume this role long term. I hope she gets a lot of help and support during her placement and maybe she will eventually be able to work with this particular undertaker again to build her experience as she continues her training if she does go ahead with the career. Without people who genuinely care and can offer respect to those they deal with and the grieving left behind it's a very different process so I see why she has noticed and wants to learn from this wonderful woman, it really does make a huge impact, I wish her well with her work experience

OP, if it is does not identify the undertaker or breach any confidences, let us know how it goes once your DD completes this work experience.

I really hope it goes well for her. She sounds like a very mature and sensitive girl.