CAT4 – SAS 138 – Which top independent schools would offer high scholarship %?

[hayfin]

An ordinary family in SE London, never thought of an independent route for our boy (year 5) due to financial constraints, i.e. always think of Grammar Schools. However, a recent school-arranged CAT4 test has opened new doors for us, after his SAS score at 138 (i.e. 99 percentile across all 4 batteries). In addition to his music (will soon attempt for ABRSM grade VIII) and sports achievements, there is a slim chance for us to (try) explore the independent route.

Appreciate any insight/ experience sharing re:

1. if any top independent day school would offer ~50% scholarship, which is rare or even unheard of.
2. Which independent school(s) would take CAT4 result as part of their admission process?

We understand that the top top ones (SP, Tonbridge, Westminster) never offer anything above 10-15%, and a few “second tier” ones (i.e. Trinity, Whitgift etc) are also moving away from high scholarship %. Unfortunately we cannot relocate, so we pretty much focus on South/ South East London and Kent.

Thanks for all comments in advance.
Happy Easter

With such a musical child it would be worth considering Trinity School in Croydon. The academic side is excellent and for music they are one of the best in the country, with children regularly performing in films and major international music productions.

They are also very down to earth and supported by the Whitgift Foundation, which offers very generous bursaries to those who need it and make the standard.

Don't want to out myself totally by going into detail, but am a current parent and know that the children who get scholarship offers from Trinity also get offers from Westminster, City of London, KCS etc.

Westminster perspective: 138 average over the 4 areas wouldn't be that strong vs WUS Y5s (where 60 students a year for the senior school come from). There are some kids with higher music grades by Y5 but at most it's about 10/44 or so. But your key is the second instrument for scholarship.

Has DS done primary maths challenge or other competitions that you can compare with other schools? Bonus round of PMC probably a better indicator than CAT4 scores.

But all that aside still apply to top schools as you've got to be in it to win it.

Agree with PPs it’s bursaries you should be looking at.
Here’s the info on City of London Boys for instance.https://www.cityoflondonschool.org.uk/apply/bursary

and a list of schools doing well at GCSE
https://www.best-schools.co.uk/uk-school-league-tables/list-of-league-tables/top-100-schools-by-gcse

But I agree that a good state school is probably the best bet.

City also has music scholarships but I can’t see the info on their website. Give them a call if you’re interested - they have a good music department.

Forgot the link

https://www.cityoflondonschool.org.uk/school-life/music

Hi elij, tks for sharing. May I check what do you mean by "music grade it's about 10/44 " ?

We have not done any maths challenges or competitions, will take a look at PMC as you suggested. Thanks

I’m not sure you can refer to Whitgift and Trinity as more ‘second tier’ private schools. Both establishments are exceptional learning environments and provide the most incredible facilities, teaching and pastoral care. As a 15 year parent of Whitgift with all my sons going to Russell Gp universities and two claiming national honours at sport I find that a bit hard to swallow!

I would disagree that senior schools don't look at CAT4 scores, they absolutely do and they are usually included as part of the HM reference which may also include the latest school report. Senior schools always refer to CAT 4 scores as this is a measure of a pupil's raw potential, rather than simply the ability to score highly in an exam (I.e ISEB), which may have been heavily practised or worse , tutored for. I think your DS sounds like a prime scholarship candidate (academic and Music) and this will also unlock the bursary route at the top independents for you , providing you legitimately qualify for bursary funding.

DD had CAT of 139 and qualified for a Graveney grammar stream via the Wandsworth test so may have a similar profile. I really don't think the CAT score will get you anything without academic preparation. We were very relaxed about the exams as we were aware DD is very smart and will ace reasoning tests. She was also great at Maths and problem-solving / logic.

To my surprise, she was not offered any academic scholarships anywhere (and I am not even talking about the likes of Westminster but schools like Emanuel School). We knew she was "smart enough" to pass most tests, but as a result didn't tutor her, let alone prepare intensively. Academic scholarships go to a tiny number of the highest scoring candidates which are probably usually a combination of very high natural ability along with dedicated preparation.

A friend of hers was awared a couple of academic scholarships and he originally had an almost identical profile but I think they honed and finetuned his creative writing and English skills in the final months rather than just relying on his reasoning / maths ability.

So in conclusion, I'd say it's a great CAT score but I doubt this alone will wow any top independent school to the extent that they would fork out an academic scholarships on that basis. It sounds like he has the ability to do well but don't be complacent about the competition for these scholarships. There are many very bright children and also many who come very well prepared for the entrance tests.

Yes, English and VR very important for scholarships and the very selective schools.

I think they feel that particularly the VR is a good proxy for IQ and general academic ability whereas I think nowadays so many kids are tutored so hard and manage to do well on maths/NVR (I know everyone will have their 'ceiling' of ability but you can definitely improve with practice). VR you can improve too with working on vocab but possibly they are looking for those kids who are in the top 1% who are good at both. I guess most kids spike on one or the other and there are lots of kids nowadays with very strong maths/NVR abilities.

Also, I think with English you have the comprehension skills which actually is probably much harder to 'tutor', but again you can improve so tutoring if you want to get into the most competitive schools is probably essential. With tutoring I mean either self-tutor (i.e. parents/family) or paid-for.

A friend's DS got into Westminster because of the above. There were other kids from his school who got into all the very top grammars e.g. Wilson's, Olave's and other top indies but not Westminster. They were very, very strong on maths (admittedly from very mathematical families but also from a culture where there is expectation to do well in sciences) and her son got in on the back of being very strong across all especially VR. To be fair, I think he has a very strong IQ and scored in the 138-140 on various standardises tests, think fluid was 145.

I find it highly disturbing to be coming to the end of the school application process and discovering something called CAT4. Should I know what this is?!

Hi all lovely parents,

Thank you for all different comments, all constructive and thought provoking.

Fast forward by 16 months, we are content to share the answer to my original main question: "if any top independent day school would offer ~50% scholarship, which is rare or even unheard of ?".

Yes indeed, we secured 2 independent school offers which included 50% scholarships. One on academic+ music, and the other one on all-round scholarship (academic + music + sports). Decent schools despite not among the top 20.

and if you wonder what is our final choice, we gave priorities to academics and its proximity to home: St Olaves. Thank you.

I hadn’t realised this was an old thread and was about to say St Olaves!

Better than a lot of the academic indies, lots of opportunities musically and academically and decent sports but you might have to look to outside clubs for that. The only school we would have considered ‘better’ in terms of value was Westminster (but unfortunately dc only received a 30% bursary offer so not enough for us). Best of all, totally free!

Outcomes for universities at Olaves are broadly similar to those at Dulwich College, Alleyns etc. Consistently around 40% to Oxbridge/Imperial/Medicine and most to RG uni’s.

Yes, great results at St Olave's and lots go to Oxbridge (though that might not be the goal for everyone, even the most bright) but for those considering it, do know that it's quite 'samish' nowadays in terms of the kids and families that go there.

Lots of kids do insane hours of study, often quite pressurised by their families. Some do extra academic (maths/physics) camps either here or abroad during the holidays (often where there parents originally came from).

If your DC is happy with that, and with less sports, then by all means go for it, but it's definitely not the all-rounded experience everyone would be looking for. It would also probably mean that many bright kids would suddenly end up in the low to bottom sets unless they're happy to apply themselves to the same extent as some other kids (families!).

We did go for a open day a few years ago and was shocked that mainly the 'professions' were mentioned as goals e.g. medicine, dentistry, accountancy etc. What about the arts and creative industries.

Should add my DC is massively into science (and not arts) and got a place at Olave's but turned offer down so no skin in the game for us.

I don’t recognise that version of St Olaves but it’s true to say that some cultural groups have very high expectations for their kids there. Destinations also include architecture, English , history, PPE, music degrees so it’s not all science and maths by any means. Quite a few gap years and degree apprenticeships too now.

@hayfin I came across your thread and have been reading with interest. So happy to see that you found the right setting for your DS in the end.

We’re trying to navigate a similar situation with our DS who is a gifted mathematician. Wondering if you’d be happy to share which indies were able to offer a 50% scholarship? Happy to be PMed if you prefer

Just for any other parents one of my relatives got a big bursary for private but didn't pass SW London grammars. I know a few other dc who also didn't get grammar places but got private places.

Hi Hayfin, came across your post, could you please share your experience on the music ensembles at the school for very talented boys? Are there many opportunities for the boys to perform?