CAT4 – SAS 138 – Which top independent schools would offer high scholarship %?

[hayfin]

An ordinary family in SE London, never thought of an independent route for our boy (year 5) due to financial constraints, i.e. always think of Grammar Schools. However, a recent school-arranged CAT4 test has opened new doors for us, after his SAS score at 138 (i.e. 99 percentile across all 4 batteries). In addition to his music (will soon attempt for ABRSM grade VIII) and sports achievements, there is a slim chance for us to (try) explore the independent route.

Appreciate any insight/ experience sharing re:

1. if any top independent day school would offer ~50% scholarship, which is rare or even unheard of.
2. Which independent school(s) would take CAT4 result as part of their admission process?

We understand that the top top ones (SP, Tonbridge, Westminster) never offer anything above 10-15%, and a few “second tier” ones (i.e. Trinity, Whitgift etc) are also moving away from high scholarship %. Unfortunately we cannot relocate, so we pretty much focus on South/ South East London and Kent.

Thanks for all comments in advance.
Happy Easter

Your best bet is to contact the bursars and admissions departments of any schools that you are interested in which are close enough and ask them about their bursary provision. If you can give them reasonably accurate financial figures they will very likely be prepared to talk to you about what you may be eligible for. You can also look schools up on the register of charities and see what they say in their published documents about how many children are on bursaries and what percentage of those are for a high amount.

It definitely doesn't need to be boarding schools and even those that start at 13/Y9 are moving towards testing at 11+ partly in order for them to be a realistic option for children coming from state schools - eg St Paul's which is mentioned upthread but is maybe a bit far away if you are in SE London. Somewhere like this or Westminster are good options, though, as they have junior departments and a boy who passes the 11+ will be able to choose to start in Y7. Many schools will waive the registration fee for bursary applicants. Even schools that only operate a Y9 entry may still test at the 11+ stage rather than later on.

You want bursaries, not scholarships. Scholarships are just for the glory and a small amount. Bursaries are means-tested unlike scholarships and are the only realistic option for an ordinary family on an ordinary income. It is also wrong that eg St Paul's doesn't offer more than 10-15%. The majority of bursary recipients at St Paul's are getting between 75 and 100% of the fees.

Re grammar schools, it depends on what area specifically you are in and which schools you are looking at. Many of the London superselectives are just as competitive as the more academically selective private schools. If you are, however, in an area where there are lots of grammar schools (you mentioned Kent) this is likely to be an easier option.

Year 5 - so aged 8 or 9 - and is taking grade 8 in an instrument soon. That is incredible. I did grade 8 piano when I was 16 and it was hard, particularly the aural tests. He must have passed grade 5 theory when he was about 5. Is this normal now?

“Is it worth stretching our limit to give him (and/or his sister) another option?”

You can’t afford to send one child without a significant bursary with an uncertain future. And then you slip in that there’s a second child 😬 if it’s a risk to afford one, it’s a hell of a risk to afford two. and/or makes me shudder. Different schools for your children can be fair and it can be that they don’t mind. But very often it’s not fair and they do mind. Tread carefully.

year 5 = somewhere between 9.5 and 10.5.
its still pretty rare but not unheard of. Grade 7 is pretty common on main instrument at primary age in national childrens orchestra, and a lot of them come from greater London (though there are also a fair few on grade 5-6). DC is still in primary and is working on grade 8 for 2 instruments. There is another primary age child in same school also working towards grade 8 on main instrument. DC auditioned recently for one of the junior music schools and the kid auditioning straight after him was smaller (I didn't ask age) and also playing at that level.
FWIW schools are a lot keener on orchestral instruments than piano.
Grade 5 distinction is often the minimum level to apply for a scholarship but the kids actually being awarded them are often grade 6-7+ standard

On music scholarships - they don’t often offer much unless combined with a bursary. Some schools are generous with these - your best bet is the top tier boarding schools, and particularly all-boy schools if your ds can sing, as they need trebles for their choirs.

On music scholarships:

At 13+ the most competitive schools will be auditioning dc who have done Grade 8 already on their first instrument and often also their second. Many of the kids will be cathedral choristers so will offer voice too, or they’ll be studying in the junior department of a conservatoire. When my dc auditioned he had grade 8 in his first instrument, grade 8 standard voice (was a chorister) and grade 5 in his third instrument.

At 11+ the competition is less intense unless your dc plays violin or piano, which tend to produce early achievers. At the top schools there will be dc playing strings or piano who already have their grade 8 but decent competition from kids with grade 6 or 7 in brass and woodwind.

At less competitive schools it’s going to be easier for your dc to get a music scholarship but likely harder to get a bursary. Or you could stick to grammar school and send them to a JD at the weekend to do the music there.

the advantage of boarding is the availability of other talented musicians 24/7 to allow dc to practise in a community and play in all sorts of ensembles.

Good luck whatever route you take.

Sorry for typo - should be “or” instead of “and/or”. Siblings always compare especially for twins, and indeed have to tread carefully. Dilemma.

SPS Bursary info

They will help families with incomes up to £126,000.

Wow, well done to your DC and amazing music achievements. Bright but also hard working as to get to Grade 8 in Y5, your DC will have put hours and hours of practice in.

Scholarships that I've heard of range up to 40% for academic (this is for 11+ i.e. entry into Y7), but typically 20-25%.

Some children then 'top' this up with sports (I think typically 5-10%, maybe higher for some I can image perhaps to 15-20% but depends on how much you bring) and music/art etc probably similar.

This is for top 40 indies/top 20 in London...it will be less for the top UK 10-20, I should imagine. Don't think Westminster offers anything at 11+, unless you're looking for a bursary.

There are the super selective grammars that do very well (but be prepared for kids to work really, really hard, maybe less of an all rounded experience). Don't discount comps in leafy areas where the top set often outshines grammar/local indies.

Thanks for sharing. In fact, my DC only practise his wind 10-15 mins per day (if not, then every other day) and he can play anything from classical to taylor swift /ed sheeran. We just want him to enjoy.

Having gone through all comments upthread and balancing all elements, it looks like we shall stick to grammar as Plan A, and perhaps try year 9 entry in Westminster (plus 1-2 more) as plan B.

But indeed, to your point, I m also wary of the extreme academic environment in some super selective grammars because I truly believe in all-rounded development and experience. Again, need to tread carefully......

Thanks, it is the one of the most helpful advice I have received so far. Appreciated. It looks like we will give a try to Westminster yr 9. Thank you again.

Best of luck! Remember that the process for Y9 entry/registration often takes place at the same time as 11+. So dont get caught out missing any admissions deadlines.

I think you are likely to get a better all round education in a grammar school. What makes you decide against that?

I am interested to know why you think that as, faced with a similar choice, it seemed to me that the curriculum breadth in the independent school we eventually chose was hugely better than in the grammar - curriculum and GCSE options available were big factors in the decision. Not to mention that the private school was obviously not going to be impacted by budget squeeze etc in the same way.

Also, there is a whole range of schooling experiences contained within 'grammar' or 'private'. A grammar taking the top 20% or so will be a very different place from a superselective taking the top 5% or perhaps less. A very selective private like Westminster will be hugely different from a private school in a small town with a smaller pool of potential children to draw from or a much less selective private school. So it is difficult to generalise between private and grammar in the main.

I think most people aiming at very selective schools will sit for a range, including grammars, and see what comes back. But, just to take one point, a child capable of taking Grade 8 in an instrument while still at primary school will have a more challenging and probably more satisfying musical experience at a school where there will be a lot of peers working at the same level rather than a school where this is unusual (it is very unusual in most state schools but I bet there are quite a number of children like this at Westminster).

Hi,
Perhaps you might have missed my earlier response: “It looks like we shall stick to grammar as Plan A, and perhaps try year 9 entry in Westminster (plus 1-2 more) as plan B.”
We are def not against grammars, there are also plenty of excellent all-rounded ones out there. It just appears that the one closest to us happen to be super selective and heavily stewed towards academics, having attended their open day and having spoken to existing students and some alumni. Hence our wish to explore other “options”, i.e. no harm to try.

At the end of the day, we are talking about suitability rather than superiority.

Try Alleyn's, I know a family whose DC got a scholarship there, based on academics and high sporting achievement.

Well-articulated re the schooling experience. It is all about observing your own kid and choose the best “environment” in which he/she can grow. Some kids thrive on a similar peer level (could be encouraging each other, or peer pressure) whilst some might prefer to be the “outstanding” one.

Specifically on music, I cannot agree more. We happen to know a year9 Tonbridge School boy who got his Grade8 trumpet passed during year 7. When he started @Tonbridge last Sept, he went straight to the school senior band and further improve by playing alongside those better and more experienced seniors (year 11-13).

Thanks again.

Christ's Hospital in West Sussex offers bursaries up to 100% based on income - you could be offered part bursary plus a scholarship too. It's academic but also amazing for art/drama/music - has it's own marching band! What's lovely about it is that you get such a mix of backgrounds - some full-fee payers, some full bursaries and lots of in-betweens!

Your info on Tonbridge isn’t quite correct, OP. Our close family friend’s son is there on an 80% bursary. If your son gets into Tonbridge on that sort of bursary , everything is paid for by the school , including uniforms and trips.

OP, look at this. Everything you need is in this comment. You referenced Tonbridge. There are different schemes for entrance into Tonbridge. State primary school kids take a different one from indies. Have a good look at it. The admission team members are incredibly helpful in guiding you through it.

If your dc is sitting absrm grade 8 at age 10 with only 10 mins practice per day, especially on a wind instrument which presumably he didn’t start at age 3 , that is a really phenomenal achievement.

I seem to remember just running through the pieces took me about 30 mins!

What is his music teacher saying about his musical ability? It sounds exceptional - you should be getting some advice on how to take that forward aside from the academic side of things.

Hi, tks for comments. He started when he turned 6 back then, and credits go to his private teacher who's a top solo and symphony orchestra performer internationally. To be fair, the 10-15 mins practice is on top of the weekly class (1hr) with this teacher. So I'd believe it's down to his active learning in the class. He has always been a quick learner.

His teacher actually said he ought to step up his efforts & time if pursue further (i.e. a diploma), and his shy character may become a hindrance. On this, I'd discuss with my DC and see if he wants to join a wind band post 11+. cheers

I'd be careful to balance what you are expecting from a grammar and indie/private school. As pp have said costs rack up (uniform, clubs, trips etc) but if you can get a decent bursary that you'd have some leeway for these I would agree selective privates do better than some grammar schools. East Kent for example don't achieve as well as West Kent - so you could pay for a non-selective private and get the same results as a grammar in East Kent or do West Kent and get a different set of schools in the same league. Look at the extras he enjoys too and ensure the school is suited for those - many computer science teachers are going to private schools for the money and behaviour, for example. Private schools vary wildly in what they offer so you do need to think about clear requirements and a wish list, then perhaps post with those for recommendations near you in a separate thread. Visiting is obviously the main test and you'll see and feel more for a school once you've seen the kids in situ.

OP It shouldn’t cost you anything to apply for independent schools - the ones I know waive the application fee for bursary candidates.

I know a boy who got a couple of 110% bursary offers (covering school coach, uniform, lunch, trips etc on top of the fees), so it is entirely possible and in his case worked out financially easier than grammar school.

is entirely possible and in his case worked out financially easier than grammar school.

It’s an important point; bursary awards should be going to families who really don’t have other options. I’d hope schools would prioritise a child whose family don’t live near any decent state school, rather than one whose home is in the catchment of several excellent grammar and comprehensive schools.

It is awfully easy for parents to pontificate about ‘not wanting a private school education’ for their child - from the comfort of their £1m house in a completely exclusive catchment.

Yes, bursary applicants have to prove they don't have the financial means which is an extensive finances check. There are more underprivileged children in our local private schools than in grammars if you look at numbers with 100% bursary awards in private school vs Free School Meals in grammar. My dad went to a grammar and was a massive reserve snob about me going to a private school. It's a very odd ideology as my grandparents could certainly have afforded private schooling for him and his sister. He doesn't see that he took a space from a poorer more deserving child at all!