Secondary School Appeal

[Meadows11]

Help this stressed out mumma!
We haven’t been given our first or second choice and have been allocated a school further away. The school we chose was about 30min walk whereas the one we have been given is 1hr 20min walk or a journey of 2 buses which will take over an hour. Most of the children have been given the one we wanted and we missed out by 85meters!
We are going to appeal not just based on distance but SEND needs. Our daughter has adhd and dyslexia. The school we want has a dedicated hub for SEND children whereas the other one doesn’t and also if our daughter had to travel on 2 buses. It would extend her day by 2 hours, and would probably prevent her taking part in extra school activities as she would be even later home. We live in a Bristol so traffic/buses are extremely busy at those times and our daughter struggles with too much going on. Has anyone had and success in appealing and getting in on these type of situations. Ant help appreciated, I really don’t want to homeschool. Lockdown was bad enough 🤣

"Our daughter has adhd and dyslexia. The school we want has a dedicated hub for SEND children whereas the other one doesn’t"

The dedicated hub for SEND children will either be aimed at children with an EHCP, and funded on that basis. It won't have capacity for every child in Bristol with adhd and dyslexia. Those are very common needs that can be catered for by any school.

"and also if our daughter had to travel on 2 buses. It would extend her day by 2 hours, and would probably prevent her taking part in extra school activities as she would be even later home."

Did you only put two preferences on your application form? Are there closer schools that you didn't put in your form, and are they likely to have spaces? If so, your argument won't wash.

Hopefully you will get a waiting list place. Always worth trying an appeal, but you will need to a) confirm if your daughter would be included in the SEN hub and b) build a case about specifically how they would help your child in a way other schools won't.

Transport is a weak reason unfortunately. You can probably mention if it is harder for her to travel alone but it won't be a main point.

"Always worth trying an appeal,"

No, it is not always worth trying an appeal. If your grounds are weak (as these seem to be - see my pp) and the school has a solid defence against going over PAN (check previous years' stats) the op will be wasting her own time and the school's time and money (because they have to pay for the appeal).

She has the right to appeal, but that doesn't mean she should.

Completely understand what you’re saying about EHCP. We had a separate tour of the school with the SEND lead and she said that our daughter would be able to use the hub during break times etc if she needed a quiet space.

we did only put 2 schools down as they were the closest. There are no other schools within walking distance. The travel concern is more about her being able to navigate the complexity of the journey and her safety.

@BendingSpoons
I’m hopeful we will get a place from the waiting list. The last 3 years we would have got a place. We will try to appeal if needed as I feel we have to do everything possible for our daughter.

We did speak with the SEND lead on the visit and she did say our daughter would be able to use it. There were lots of other things they said they could do to accommodate her needs as well.

regarding travel I have also heard it can be a weak argument but also have seen where it has helped. It’s not so much about the time etc it’s the fact it’s a complex journey which my daughter would struggle with and if a bus was to not turn up or be full ( which happens quite a lot) she could find herself stranded for longer periods.

Can you look at the allocation data on the local authority website to see if there are any closer schools with places in addition to going on the waiting list for the one you want? I appreciate there are only the two in walking distance but even if you could reduce it down to one bus journey it would be a help.

Are you certain the school you have been allocated doesn't a have space for children who are overwhelmed at break times etc. in my experience most do even if it isn't in a dedicated SEND hub.

"We had a separate tour of the school with the SEND lead and she said that our daughter would be able to use the hub during break times etc if she needed a quiet space."

Yes, she might be able to use it if she gets a place, but that's not strong grounds for appeal. Remember that the school will already have many children with similar needs to your child, who will also be using the hub. You have no strong case for pushing them over PAN.

Our school successfully defends against this sort of case all the time. Our lovely pastoral staff impress parents at the open day, more so than their equivalents at other schools, so the parents convince themselves ours is the only school that can meet the need. It isn't.

My wording was poor - I agree there isn't much point appealing in many cases. However I disagree that the OPs case is weak and therefore it's not worth bothering. It might not be the strongest case, but there is potential to build a case there, and we don't know all the details. Nearly 1 in 5 appeals are upheld. That's not fantastic odds, but it's not terrible either if you research your case well. Of course appeals cost time and money, but you have a right to, and only one opportunity for your child. Assuming the school is holding other appeals, then one more won't make a huge difference financially. I'm sure many schools/LAs wish we could do away with appeals, but it is currently a small but vital part of our admissions procedures that parents are entitled to use.

I have worked in schools with very segregated SEN units and mainstream children get no benefit. I have worked in other schools that look at overall need and are able to include some mainstream children in parts of their provision. For example they run lunch clubs or homework clubs which other selected children can join. The TA may be in the lesson for X and Y but is happy to give some support to Z too when X and Y are working well. OP has given some examples from the SENCO which will help. I think it would also help to have evidence about why your daughter will find travelling more tricky - why will she specifically find it harder to cope with transport problems than a peer.

"I’m hopeful we will get a place from the waiting list. The last 3 years we would have got a place."

Then if you do plan to appeal, do it as close to the deadline as possible. If you appeal, then withdraw, the school probably still gets charged a fee by the appeals service.

Ignore previous poster, they are on every appeals thread trying to dissuade parents to appeal. I would set out the travel difficulties, and look at the timings - are they in line with DfE guidance for her age? Also, if there are travel difficulties in relation to her SEN. You have a right to preference a school, and the right to appeal the decision as per School Standards and Framework Act.
The distance you were missed is close so hopefully a place comes up for her through the waiting list. Good luck.

"Nearly 1 in 5 appeals are upheld. That's not fantastic odds, but it's not terrible either if you research your case well"

In many cases appeals are only successful because schools deliberately put up a weak defence. These are usually LA-run schools that want to put up their PAN but they haven't been allowed to because the LA is trying to fill up less popular schools.

"Assuming the school is holding other appeals, then one more won't make a huge difference financially."

Each appeal costs our school an extra £400, which does make a huge difference financially.

"Ignore previous poster, they are on every appeals thread trying to dissuade parents to appeal."

No, I've given encouragement where it is warranted. I work in a school, so I know about the finances and the "defence" side of appeals. I also have admissions expertise. My insight is just as valid as others who are panel members etc, though coming from a different perspective. I can tell people what the school's defence is likely to be, and I can tell them the negative impact of appeals on the school. What they do with the information is up to them.

And you don't know whether the school OP is appealing for is one of the ones which puts up a week case or not.

@Meadows11 I would put in an appeal and also go on the waiting list for any other schools nearby which would be easier to get to. At the same time I would start to practice on the buses and attend any other transition events run by the allocated school.

Each appeal costs our school an extra £400, which does make a huge difference financially

£400 is nothing compared to a child traveling over 2 hours a day for school - and a disabled one at that.

"And you don't know whether the school OP is appealing for is one of the ones which puts up a week case or not."

Neither do you. But there are ways of gauging it from the local context, such as the type of school (academy or LA), whether there are undersubscribed schools nearby, whether there has been recent building work, and whether the school's recent appeal stats show they have a solid defence. These are all things that people can think about for their own appeal.

@Scarletttulips
thank you for your post.

I’m glad you said it as I was thinking it. money shouldn’t be an object when it comes to that. I’ll happily give them the £400 to hear my appeal

She has SEN not a disability. Special educational needs are dealt with through the EHCP process. I know it is on its knees, and parents are desperate, but Appeals Panels are not qualified to judge whether one child's SEN outweighs another's, and they know that all schools have to cater for SEN.

I realise this isn't what people want to hear, but it will be the school's defence. Without it, they would be the target of SEN appeals from all over Bristol.

Many schools have a community fund that you can donate to anonymously, so it is worth considering.

@PatChaunceysFruitCake

we have had a look at other schools, and unfortunately the ones that we could have potentially looked at are also oversubscribed. The other problem we have is that we live extremely close to 2 different councils. The school that is closer is in Bristol council where we are South Gloucestershire. I did apply for this school but knew from previous years it was never going to happen. 2 other schools that could be reached by 1 bus are both oversubscribed and in Bristol Council area so again we are way down then allocation list.

@tripz
“she has SEN not a disability”
I think The Equality Act 2010 would disagree with you!

quote from the British Dylexia association:

”The Equality Act 2010 defines a disability as:
"a physical or mental impairment which has a substantial and long-term adverse effect on their ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities".
Substantial is defined as 'more than trivial'.
Therefore, as dyslexia is a lifelong condition and has a significant impact on a person's day-to-day life, it meets the criteria of a disability and is covered by The Equality Act 2010.

ADHD is also covered by this.

Ok, I concede that point, but it makes no difference to the other points made. Whether it is SEN or SEND, it doesn't have an EHCP so any school should be able to cope with it, and therefore it isn't a strong appeal argument.

As an admissions manager and someone who presents appeals for over 100 schools per academic year, I would recommend that you submit your appeal.
Previous poster is projecting her own school difficulties onto their responses, and they also have zero knowledge of the local context or school case.
The cost differs depending on LA/appeals service so don't give that any thought. I'd be very surprised at a school paying £400 per appellant in the bulk appeals.

I can see how that makes things trickier.

My DD is in year 7 so I spent time on this forum this time last year. There was a thread on those who had appealed and those on waiting lists. Worth having a read, it really does seem to be the case that there is movement on the lists. There was lots of good advice about being able to find your position on the waiting list too. There were also a lot of people who won their appeal.

My advice (and I've never submitted a school appeal so feel free to ignore!) is don't rush yo submit it. Take your time to do your research and formulate your arguments. There's no benefit to being the first to appeal when there are weeks to go before the deadline.

I am also involved in the appeals process, so my views are just as valid as yours, and typical for many schools.

Do you mean you are an admissions manager for the local authority? And do you mean that you are the presenting officer for schools that are under local authority control? If that is the case, you have one perspective. Your salary is probably being paid by top-slicing of school budgets, so you have no reason to care about school finances.

In contrast, my experience is with academies (more than one). Our academy trust is the admissions authority. We pay the local authority for our appeals service out of our budget, so we get an itemised bill.

Local authority schools may not get an itemised bill, but they are still paying for the appeals service (in fact, ironically, the undersubscribed schools in the LA area are probably subsidising the oversubscribed schools for their elevated use of the appeal service).