Secondary School Appeal

[Meadows11]

Help this stressed out mumma!
We haven’t been given our first or second choice and have been allocated a school further away. The school we chose was about 30min walk whereas the one we have been given is 1hr 20min walk or a journey of 2 buses which will take over an hour. Most of the children have been given the one we wanted and we missed out by 85meters!
We are going to appeal not just based on distance but SEND needs. Our daughter has adhd and dyslexia. The school we want has a dedicated hub for SEND children whereas the other one doesn’t and also if our daughter had to travel on 2 buses. It would extend her day by 2 hours, and would probably prevent her taking part in extra school activities as she would be even later home. We live in a Bristol so traffic/buses are extremely busy at those times and our daughter struggles with too much going on. Has anyone had and success in appealing and getting in on these type of situations. Ant help appreciated, I really don’t want to homeschool. Lockdown was bad enough 🤣

There's no benefit to being the first to appeal when there are weeks to go before the deadline.

This is an important point. All appeals for the school must be considered at the same time, by the same panel. Usually there is a "group stage" where the school presents its case, followed by an individual hearing for each parent, where they present their cases. Decisions are made in a single meeting after all appeals are heard. Therefore there is no advantage in appealing sooner rather than later, so long as you meet the deadline.

No my salary is not paid through top slicing school budgets, but nice try. I present appeals for all academies and our very few LA schools that are left.

Any parent wishing to appeal will not see the school's case until they do, and that may help their reasons for the appeal.
All LAs work differently in relation to how appeals are paid for, maybe this is something you should explore if you feel that your school is struggling to manage appeal costs.

Leaving this thread as I wanted to help and support parents but it has become (as usual on Mumsnet) unhelpful and frustrating due to misinformation being given. 20 years of appeals experience, what do I know??? 🙄

I also have that background. Nobody should withdraw from exercising their legal rights out of guilt or emotional blackmail. Otherwise, there's tacit approval to the notion that schools could break Admissions Law 'because only somebody selfish would appeal'. And it's a given that, without this legal protection and right acting as a check and balance, some schools would break the Law.

Take away the reliable income for independent appeals staff ensuring that decisions are legal, take away the imperative for Governors, Heads and Admissions staff to know Admissions Law and follow it in all cases, and you will end up with schools discriminating against children on the basis of things like disability, income, ability, ethnicity and other Protected Characteristics.

It's no different legally than exercising a right to Trial by Jury or having free legal representation upon arrest in Criminal Law - nobody should be dissuaded from having legal representation and denied the opportunity to be tried by a jury of peers because it's more expensive for the Government; just because the legal test is on the Balance of Probabilities, rather than Beyond All Reasonable Doubt, that doesn't mean anybody should eschew their legal rights out of a misplaced sense of 'social responsibility'.

So do appeal, OP. You may be offered a place completely separately to that over the coming weeks as people make decisions to go to other places, or if the consultation period for EHCP establishes that your preferred school is the best place to meet your child's needs - but still appeal. It's your right, it's the right thing to do and I hope that the Panel make the decision that is right for your child.

"it has become (as usual on Mumsnet) unhelpful and frustrating due to misinformation being given. 20 years of appeals experience, what do I know???"

You know a lot, from your perspective, but others also have long years of experience and know a lot from their perspective too. You have made the mistake of assuming your views trump everybody else's (very common on these threads), that other views should be silenced, and that the op can't make their own mind up about which advice to take on board, and which to ignore. The op seems very sensible so I'm sure they will do that.

"No my salary is not paid through top slicing school budgets, but nice try. I present appeals for all academies and our very few LA schools that are left."

Different LA's have different models. Yours may (or may not) be similar to ours. Ours takes a "service provisioning" approach. They provide a service catalogue, which includes the appeals service as a catalogue item. LA-run and Academy schools can procure the service from the LA, or use an appeals service from an alternative service provider.

Any school (LA or academy) that subscribes to the service will get an itemised bill.

If you had the role you describe in our LA it would be paid for by the appeal service subscriptions

Other LA's, that have fewer academies, provide the appeals service from a top-slice of their overall schools budget.

Either way, schools pay for the appeals service, which covers your salary.

I can’t help re appeals but if you missed out on a place at preferred school by 85m, chances of success on the waiting list are high. Lots of state school places will come available almost immediately while parents choose to either homeschool or send to private

is there not a catchment school with transport arrangements?

But thankfully I'm not in your LA, and my salary is not funded that way - like I said earlier. Yes, schools pay for the appeals service but you are wrong to assume that funds my salary.

We won our appeal a few years ago. We were 8m outside furthest distance, and on allocations day 3rd on wait list, but we're not offered a wait-list place and got in via appeal heard mid-May.

Look at the other appeals threads for how to appeal. We made the case that the school had space as well as why it was important for our child to go there. Apparently many parents don't do the first part. We were one of two upheld appeals out of 2 days of hearings. Was initially told our case was thin, but whatever we said, it worked.

OP, if the school is that far away, wouldn’t your daughter qualify for free school transport? Are there many children in your area going and if so is there a school bus? To qualify your daughter would need to be attending the nearest suitable school so there are closer undersubscribed schools you may be told she needs to go there, but from the sound of it she’s been allocated this school by them so you’d have expected them to place her in a closer school if one were available.

@Clearinguptheclutter

I think there is but I also think those schools are also oversubscribed. Unfortunately we live in an area that has had loads of recent housing developments but no school provisions put in place .

I think free school transport (in the areas I am used to) only applies if you applied for all the closest schools in the normal application round but were not placed in any. It’s not available for people who don’t get closer schools only because they didn’t apply for them, and so get placed further away.

Even if they are oversubscribed it doesn’t mean you have no chance of getting in does it? If you didn’t apply to them it might be worth seeing if they have waitlists also

Absolutely appeal OP. The cost or not to schools, LAs or academies is not your concern. You did not create this system, you just have to try your best to navigate it.

Firstly make sure you accept the offer you have. This won't change the outcome of any appeals or wait list places but if you don't accept, the LA won't be obliged to find you another place. You'll have to do that yourself.

Then get yourself onto the waiting lists for the schools you want. Some LAs do this automatically for your higher preference schools others don't. Also check to make sure they have you in the correct category on that waiting list eg catchment, distance etc

Also check that admissions have the correct address for you. Getting a digit wrong on your street address could make a difference if the last admitted distance is very close.

Look at advice on here about appealing places. You need to show that the school you want has things that will benefit your daughter. So not how terrible the other school is but specific things the school you want does do that would benefit your child.

If the school you want is over subscribed then you need to show that the detriment to your daughter of not attending is greater than the detriment to the school of having an extra pupil.

Generally transportation issues aren't considered (having to catch multiples buses etc) but it won't hurt to explain that because of your daughter's additional needs she could/will find this much harder or impossible.

Good luck

That's why you never do that. You always need to put a 'banker' school locally that you'd be happy to go to..............good luck with the appeal, hopefully others will learn from your mistake.

@tripz every parent has the right to appeal and nobody should be telling them not to. About 20% of the school population have SEN and only 5% (up from 2% pre-pandemic) have EHCPs. That means that 15% of pupils have identifiable SEN without the protection of an EHCP. Those are exactly the sort of people who benefit from the appeal system.

@Meadows11 yes, appeal.

They don't have EHCP's because, in principle, their needs can be catered for by any mainstream school. I know that many parents get stuck within the process of applying for an EHCP, and that can be really distressing, but appeals panels are not qualified to consider whether one school is better able to cater for special educational needs than another. The training given to panel members in my borough makes that very clear.

The thing is, what has to be demonstrated is that the detriment to that particular child outweighs the detriment to the school of admitting an extra pupil. So a child who has eg a physical impairment (eg mild cerebral palsy) but no other SEN may not have an EHCP, especially if they have always been in a small primary. However, the detriment to them of being in a large school on a huge site with multiple sets of stairs to navigate (or lifts in far corners with ling walks) is still great, and may very well outweigh the detriment to the smaller, more compact school being appealed to.

It is quite simply not reasonable to say ‘no EHCP = any school can meet need without detriment’. And appeal data shows thus - that children with needs but no EHCP win appeals.

@Clearinguptheclutter
definitely going add my daughter to any waitlists within walking distance or minimal bus journey and hope for the best

Panels are able to determine if evidence is supplied that indicates a school is better able to meet a child's needs though. So if parents have a letter from a professional that states that their preferred school would be better for the child, it can be taken into account.

"So a child who has eg a physical impairment (eg mild cerebral palsy) but no other SEN may not have an EHCP, especially if they have always been in a small primary. However, the detriment to them of being in a large school on a huge site with multiple sets of stairs to navigate (or lifts in far corners with ling walks) is still great, and may very well outweigh the detriment to the smaller, more compact school being appealed to."

Yes, it might, but that is not the op's case is it? 🙄 In the case you describe, the appeal would be on the basis of mobility issues, which can easily be proven, as can the layout of the school, so a strong case can be made. But dyslexia and adhd can be catered for in any school.

Thanks Lougle. You put it much more clearly and succinctly than I did.

But dyslexia and adhd can be catered for in any school

Very few schools sign up to the dyslexia friendly award. A lot of teachers know nothing about ADHD and dyslexia - children are often punished for there deficits - I know my child was one of them.

“But dyslexia and adhd can be catered for in any school.”

Maybe not equally well. A school may gave specific expertise; a specific unit or may otherwise be better set up for certain SEN. Or, as in the OP’s case, may be reached by accessible transport or offer a particular curriculum that may suit a particular child (eg some secondaries have some or all classes in early KS3 set up in a ‘primary’ model of form rooms and even class teachers, which may benefit children with specific learning difficulties.)

Your sweeping statement about all schools is simply not true, and your posts do seem to have a ‘don’t appeal’ agenda that may be unhelpful to many parents with appeal options open to them at this emotionally fraught time of year.

"Maybe not equally well. A school may gave specific expertise; a specific unit or may otherwise be better set up for certain SEN"

Of course not equally well. Many people appeal because they want to go to a school that is "better" in some way. But "specific units" are funded by EHCP money. Non-EHCP students at those schools can benefit from them too, but that doesn't mean every child in the city with dyslexia/adhd has a strong case for admittance above other children.

Anyway, we're going round in circles now. I just wanted the op to know what the school's defence might be. As I said, we get SEN/pastoral appeals to our school frequently, and none have been successful yet.

@tripz I know it's really hard when you have been exposed to a particular situation that shapes your view on a situation, but you are presenting your views as facts. All schools should be able to cater for ADHD and dyslexia, but many schools can't. They either lack the expertise or the understanding. Additionally, tell me what 'ADHD' looks like? Some schools do really well with children who have inattentive ADHD, but don't cope well with children who display their ADHD with quite disruptive behaviours.