Private or state WWYD in this situation

[Clearinguptheclutter]

In a very lucky position, I know lots of others aren't and I'm very sorry about that.

DS has been offered a state place and also a place at a very academic private.
The latter was applied for in case he didn't get a place at the (excellent, oversubscribed) preferred state, but he did - we need to make a decision by next week.

We expected to just go for the state place in this situation due to costs (we have a younger child to consider too) but a family member has come forward and offered to basically pay for both boys to attend the private which is obviously extremely generous and lucky; this has somewhat floored us because the private was always going to be a big stretch financially, yet now that is potentially not a concern.

A good friend of DS is going to the private - the vast majority of his friends are going to the state. He is somewhat on the fence, preferring to go with his pals but willing to go to the private where he thinks the 'stretch' will be good for him. I think he's likely to do ok wherever he ends up. He's very bright but struggles with motivating himself for homework. Does well at (state) primary. Is more the quiet geeky one in the corner, not a particularly outgoing type.

We need to decide this weekend but currently both DH and I are steering towards the state option. Are we mad? The main pros and cons of the private (setting aside the money) we see are

Pros
-Brilliant extra curricular (not just sport which he isn't into). We'd really like DS to broaden his extra curricular horizons (which are currently mostly restricted to gaming currently)
-Hopefully a bit of an extra push academically (tbf the state is known as being pushy academically too)
-Not having to suffer from the desperate lack of resources seen in many state schools

Cons
-The private is a mix of fairly 'normal' middle class families and some wealthy types. We really don't want our child to grow up with a sense of privilege. In the longer term, we think it's good for kids to learn to muck along with everyone.
-We are not at all wealthy and definitely would not want our kid to think that it's normal to have flashy cars, fancy holidays, labelled clothes etc (even though we have none of that).
-Although it's an easy busy ride for DS, the catchment is very wide so he'll end up with friends all over the city. Whereas if he goes to the state the vast majority of his pals will be within walking/biking distance. We're worried about him (and to some extent us) cutting himself off from the local community.

Not related to the school but we're also not entirely comfortable with accepting such a generous offer. If there was money available, we think it would be better spent for uni fees or towards their first homes, but obviously can't know for sure that would be available in the future .

WWYD?

Thanks @fabio12 i wouldn’t say the state results overall is comparable. It’s in a middle class (not affluent) area but with a very mixed catchment. An academy took over 5 years ago and from what I gather has dramatically improved. Outcomes aren’t good for everyone there, however. I do suspect for my son they might not be very different to the private though.

I wouldn't want to feel in debt to a family member- different if the money was left in a will!

I also work for private schools and don't assume it will be better! It's a business after all and not everything is as it seems.

That's a tough decision, albeit a nice one to have. It sounds like you know your son would do well in either school and so neither would be the 'wrong' choice. . If you're comfortable having the conversation with your relative about using their financial offer for something in the future then it could be explored, but you might also want to think about whether they're trying to plan for inheritance tax where regular payments for school fees fall out of the 'seven year survivorship rule'. I'm not an expert so you'd need to look into it properly and discuss it with your family - but I suppose I'm suggesting you don't reject the offer of money for education if you might not be able to benefit from it in some way down the line!
My own son is at a private school in the SE. While some of the school children are from very wealthy families, many are not. V common for two working parents, ordinary houses, ordinary cars. As families in the local state schools (he went to local state primary) are often affluent too, I don't think there's a lot of difference - except for less extremes of income. Some of his friends are from the wider area, but many also live locally. Like your son, the majority of his friends went elsewhere, but a couple of best friends went to the private school. For us the private school was also our most local option, so journey was irrelevant. Where my husband and I notice the difference to our own state school experiences is that he gets chance to participate in a range of sport (he isn't sporty) as there are more opportunities for everyone. He regularly has to present his work to the class which is fantastic for building confidence (we don't remember doing this). There's very little disruption in lessons and he regularly participates in challenges, e.g. computer coding challenges and maths challenges and participate the debating club. Academically, he's stretched and enjoys the challenge of keeping up with peers, but I think he would probably achieve the same GCSE results anywhere. It's tough to decide whether it's mostly about results or the added extras - good luck in your decision!

I had a very similar dilemma when my dc started Secondary.
Opted for the Outstanding State school with an excellent reputation and good results.
Big mistake and one which I bitterly regret!

Reasons -
Poor class behaviour, lessons and trips often disrupted,
High staff turnover - some subjects are very short staffed and covered by assistants, a few subjects don't have any subject qualified staff. Lots of supply teachers covering lessons.
It's impossible to speak to individual teachers - all done by email.

Constant testing, more testing and testing again. Most teachers don't seem to have a clue who my dc is and just refer to test results.
Myriad of petty rules and threat of detentions for simple mistakes, causing lots of anxiety.
No flexibility for stretching subjects that DC is way ahead on.
Incessant pushing of gender ideology in PSHE. Anyone with a different opinion is taken out of the class for individual sessions to be 're educated' (I'm not joking!).
Fear of using toilet facilities due to bad behaviour by a few, then not allowed to use toilets because they are closed due to same bad behaviour - rinse and repeat.

The teachers are individually hard working, conscientious professionals - but the school system is under-resourced, under-staffed and very flawed.

@Wogdener
yes you’ve nailed the dilemma. The outcome may be essentially similar but there is a chance that his schooling could just be a lot nicer, for want of a better word, at the private.

yes I think the relative wants to be able to spend the money now rather than in the future/as an inheritance- where it could be more easily taxed- frankly they are likely not to be around to see what happens to it unless it is spent in the next few years, even though the money will likely end up in our family’s hands one way or another. A delicate conversation to have I think.

@toomuchthought
blimey that’s unlucky

while I’m sure there will be aspects I’m not too keen on, I know lots of parents with kids in year 7,8,9 at the state and have heard almost universally positive things. I’m going on what the parents say not what ofsted says. Plus I hear (most of) the kids themselves love it.

if it all goes horribly wrong, there could be the option to move him to the private in future. The other way is likely to be harder.

If your son isn't particularly motivated then the right private school could be a game changer.
This lovely offers gives you a lot of options, including planning for university costs, saving for their first house, etc. Going back to the person who made this offer and ask for a different arrangement would be quite inappropriate imo, they are clearly invested in what a private education would provide for your DCs, not in making a monetary gift as such.

State.

My DCs are thriving at a good local comprehensive, on track for top grades, loads of great co curricular activities and pastoral care is brilliant.

They have great friends from a variety of backgrounds and have a real understanding and empathy for others. They work hard and appreciate what they have.

If you have a good state option, I would go for that every time over private.

Ok, I think Private. I think he’ll find his crowd there. My DD has found her crowd at her independent school, kids who in Year 7 are not into tik tok, but into their sport. Learning, being bright is welcomed, it’s not ‘geeky’. These are pretty transformative years. This is where you’ve got to throw money at it if you can.

our local state school is ‘Good’ gets amazing results due to the affluent area we live in, but I think kids are more spoilt than our Independent.

I can say our kids moved from an Outstanding Primary to a Prep and it’s like night and day. You can’t compare, it’s like chalk and cheese,

I meant to say earlier I have experience myself of both an academic private and a fairly middle of the road state and….yeah.

I went to a state primary and then got an assisted place” at a private secondary.
i was grateful for both experiences; but the private secondary really set me up for life I would say.
Every pupil there was a bit nerdy like me, clever and wanted to learn. The teachers were amazing and, as nobody was disruptive in class, we just enjoyed the lessons .
No bullying (like I’d experienced in my state school). Most of my class are still close friends 20 years later.
The small class sizes instills confidence in public speaking. The trips were amazing.
It wasn’t all flashy cars. I did get to see how the other half lived, it probably made me ambitious for myself if anything. But pupils came from all sorts of backgrounds and the kids were kind and open-minded.
It sounds to me like you have inverse snobbery and would deny your kids a wonderful life-changing opportunity.

That is why in such instances the wealthy family member usually pays in advance for the tution until the end of education. I heard about grandpa who paid a quarter of a million for Bradford college ( including accomodation)

Even if the family member is trustworthy and won't run out of money or decide not to provide it halfway through, you're basically putting your child in a position where they are beholden to the person or people financing it. What happens when the child says he wants to do history, music and art A level and the sponsor say oh no you're much better off doing STEM subjects? Does the child stick to his guns or feel he has to listen to family? I teach in a small private school in a very diverse city. Lots of families making big sacrifices and working very hard so that thir youngest members receive a better education than they did. I could name so many children who have felt forced into STEM A levels by the weight of family expectation, and the money spent on them up to that point is a big factor in that.

Tough one. My DS is moving to private this year but we don't have the fantastic state option so the move is mainly to get him jnto a better school but also there are specific needs he has which are currently unsupported in state. If you don't have these issues then it feels like state would be better.

But...if you could afford to step in if that funding stops then I don't know, my gut would say private.

FWIW for my second child to go to private we would need family financial support which may or may not be there in 5 years time but we're sending the eldest anyway on the basis his needs are greater.

From what you say maybe the state is the right choice.

However having had experience of both I would say that the state school kids were far more interested in the right branded clothes and flashy cars etc than the private school kids and parents!

The difference was aspirations and expectations and these were definitely higher at the indies we had experience of than the state schools we did. If your son is likely to want to fit on with the norm then the private setting may be more motivational.

Probably haven't helped at all but that was our experience.

Private!

Did your son have to do an entrance exam? If so, is it likely your younger DC will pass it?

Hands down, I would go private. There are two outstanding state schools in my area, but the larger class sizes, bullying etc didn’t appeal to me. That being said, it’s up to you. What’s your gut feeling? I have friends who love their state schools and they think they are great, but just because they think it’s great doesn’t mean I think it’s great. And I’m not saying that for all state schools, but especially the ones in my area. Also, I see a huge difference between the education at state vs private in my area. What they are learning, the emphasis on manners in private. But again, this is just my area. For me, private was the way to go because the class sizes are smaller and there’s double the amount of sports and activities, there’s a very strict anti bullying policy and our son is very happy there. One thing you mentioned was the fact that he may be more challenged academically and also find interests outside of gaming. I think those are two very positive points, as when kids are teenagers, finding positive outlets for their energy is really important. Again, make the decision on what you think is right. For me, I also live in London, so school budgets have been cut a lot lately. It’s 35 to a class and I’m not a fan of academy schools as what they say, goes. Parents don’t have a say. In private, I’m now on the board and get involved with improving education and facilities in the school.

I'd go private just for the smaller classes and extra curriculum activities. I wish I'd had that choice for my 4 kids as they would have been happier and done better due to more individual attention.

I would usually say 100% state as I'm in a dyed in the wool fan of good families sending their kids to state schools to support those who have no choice. However, I've just had to remove my son from his state school because the school is so underfunded and over-stretched that it was harming his mental health. We can also afford private, but my son is so broken by the state system that he now can't manage any school. So just at the moment, I think you should look very critically at both settings and see which is actually safe for your child.

Depends if the state is good

Bear in mind when it comes to uni applications there is an often an advantage coming from a comprehensive. Eg Bristol uni will give contextual offers for most comprehensives, recognising DC have to work harder to get their grades etc.

All the DC I know currently at Oxbridge/holding offers are state educated

Plenty of Private school kids holding Oxbridge offers!!! 8 from our school!

Yes. If ds1 went, we’d throw everything at making sure ds2 passed. The way things are going, we wouldn’t be too worried.

The question I would ask both schools is
’Is your Maths department currently fully staffed? Do all of them have qualifications in Maths?’

When my own dc were faving a similar question - excellent comprehensive vs private - a decade or more ago, the state was a no brainer.School funding was adequate. SEN support was, while not perfect, funded and available much more in proportion to need than is now the case. While not all teachers were brilliant, they were not leaving the profession in droves.

The private school may also be having difficulty getting and keeping staff (you may want to ask them whether they have opted out of the Teachers’ Pension Scheme) but it is unlikely that their funding, staffing and gap between SEN provision and needs us in anything like as parlous a state as in the state option.

Don't mix family and money.

If DS goes to the state school, does younger sibling's chance of getting a place increase or stay the same? I.e., do they put younger siblings on a higher rung when sifting applications?