Secondary school decision - Hammersmith schools

[valvalm]

Good morning all,
First time poster here so forgive me if I don't get all the acronyms right.
Our daughter has been lucky enough to get some offers for secondary school after 11+.
We went to the different offers holder event and we are trying to make the right choice for her.
We are left with SPGS, Godolphin and Latymer Upper. We rejected the other offers last week as less convenient in terms of commute.
I understand that they are all fantastic schools. Obviously Latymer is a co-ed school which is a big differentiating factor - and probably the reason why we won't go for it in the end. My husband is not a big advocate of that for the moment.
Do people have views though on ending GCSE? I understand SPGS will do that soon as well?

Can someone give me differentiators between SPGS and Godolphin please? What I get from talking to parents / friends around me is that SPGS is over academically, number 1 in all leagues for a number of year and it should be a no brainer.
Looking at GCSE results though it looks like we are only talking a few girls having 9 vs 8? Am I correct?
The things that worry me at SPGS at the moment is that it seems to lack diversity in terms of ethnicities. We are of mixed background and when we went for the offer holder there, the vast majority of the girls were of Asian ethnicity,

Please help me!

SPGS y8 parent here. I would advise against listening to too much talk of “highly pressurised” etc associated with the school. Your DD has secured her offer and therefore it’s going to be an environment she is very likely to be able to cope with. We have found so far to be very happy with the school and my DD loves it and has made lots of friends. They are very mindful of the girls wellbeing and at pains to stress that they should not be put under pressure. In terms of diversity, yes there are a fair number of Asian and SE Asian girls but there are also a fair number that aren’t. Go with your gut for sure but from our perspective, SPGS = highly recommended 👍 I’ve no experience of G&L so can’t comment and we didn’t apply for our DD but we did have a LU offer that we declined. Loved the school and especially drama provision but our DD had a pref for all girls. We didn’t apply for LU with our second DD because I felt nervous around her being a “guinea pig” for the gcse thing. SPGS are supportive of gcse reform for sure but so far haven’t indicated they are about to ditch them. Hard to make these decisions but all your options are good ones so go with your instincts and you can’t go wrong. Good luck!

A friend is facing the same decision but still considering LU.
It doesn't help that LU decided to experiment with the incoming cohort and blow up the GCSE system. While in general sense I get the argument for reforming exam system - on a practical level I have very big doubts about an individual school being able to figure it out on its own.

It's fine to add some school directed courses. Or even teach the same curriculum, cancel exams and add more depth for the more able students.
However - re-writing the totally of curriculum for all subjects but Math and English - is a massive undertaking. And - I have no confidence that one school can figure it out.
In addition - if kids want to take - say, chemistry at A-level - it relies on knowledge of GSCE chemistry. So - not sure how this is going to play into the the whole thing.

Just as a reference - when SPGS introduced a school-directed GCSE in computer science recently - it was a mess in its first year of implementation.

Imagine if that was the case for 8+ subjects LU is planning to "reform"
Luckily I don't have to make that choice for my kids - but if I had to - I'd be waiting it out and seeing what actually happens.

I think other schools are also waiting to see to learn from LU. SPGS is certainly not cancelling GCSEs. I don't think majority of parents would support it.

As to the choice between SPGS and GL - yes, very few people turn down SPGS, due to ambition and name recognition. Not sure SPGS deserves the reputation, but it's the reality

The way Asian and SE Asian girls are mentioned in this thread is REALLY bothering me. It's bothering me that this bothers the OP.

Re LU- which I think the OP has discounted anyway.
They're not 're- writing' the whole curriculum. They're still teaching A levels so obviously they need to make sure their y11s have covered the syllabus needed for A levels that build on topic's currently learnt in GCSEs.

Yes, me too.

@TheRainItRaineth and @SerenityNowInsanityLater yes, I get it and I hesitated to even respond to it in my post - but I did. Wasn’t sure if that was the right or wrong thing to do and I apologise for any offence caused. I guess in my response what I was trying to suggest was that I would encourage not to get hung up on the ethnic diversity of any school - certainly it’s mixed anyway as far as I can see at spgs, which is great - but moreover what you can witness at spgs is a great bunch of girls (as has been my experience). Again, apologise if any offence caused, it wasn’t my intention but learning from this.

It is perfectly reasonable for OP to take into account the school’s profile beyond academic performance, as aspects such as diversity and culture environment can also matter, especially for private schools.

Is it perfectly reasonable, builderjoe, especially for private schools? Oh my god, your post just makes it worse! I don’t think the OP needs anymore help digging her own hole but you seem determined to help out.

Sorry I am not sure if this is meant for me or for someone else. I did not mean to be offensive to anyone. We just notice SPGS seems to lack diversity in terms of ethnicity representation and coming from a minority ourselves we want something as diverse as possible (for west london..). We felt probably LU was the most representative there, followed by Godolphin then SPGS.

Yes. It was meant for you, OP.

I am sorry if I upset or offended you SerenityNowInsanityLater. My post was not meant to be disrespectful or offensive. We just thought the school diversity was skewed based on what we saw at the open day (which might not be representative of the whole school). We have felt the same way when visiting some schools a few years ago where it was mainly only white European people. Coming from a minority this point is important to us.

You are putting a massive amount of trust into the ability of one individual school to figure out a better system - while the whole country's education system has not been able to. Most educational reforms here don't end up delivering much improvements.

I have a friend in LU, her child is finishing their A-Levels this year. My friend said: "if this new system is being developed by the same teachers that have been teaching my kid for the past several years - I have severe doubts they can come up and successfully implement something better."

As a parent at SPGS - and they were talking about breaking up an existing system for "new and improved", "better suited for 21st century", etc - I'd also have huge doubts about their ability to design and deliver anything.

In reality - these reforms are several years into the future. People who are designing this new great system will most likely not be around or accountable when implementation would start.

Why they chose to re-invent the wheel in one individual school is beyond me. Sure - GCSEs are not great, but they work. And - if schools don't want to teach them - there is a tried and tested IB curriculum - that also works well.

Everyone seems to be getting offended by everything these days. It is absolutely reasonable to consider the ethnic mix of the school as you wouldn’t want your child possibly to feel like a minority. There is nothing wrong with this consideration OP so ignore the snowflakes . Plenty of Asian/ black students would feel the same in a majority white school and ask the same question/ concern which would also be a perfectly plausible question and concern, so why not the other way round? We live in London which is a diverse city, but a lot of the schools have not become very diverse at and Parents if they have a choice would prefer to choose one, where their child will feel more comfortable - nothing wrong with that and any normal parent would consider this.
SPGS is very Asian heavy that’s a fact - not bad not good just fact. My DD has numerous friends who go there… all asian they all make this comment ( as a joke form ) regarding the lack of diversity esp in the last 2/3 years Intake ….
GL is somewhere in the middle, I think they’re becoming more diverse
LU has the most London representative student body and a lot more mix than the other two from firsthand experience. Again this can be seen as a positive or negative depending on the family considering it .
either way, there’s a great choices to have choose the school. You think your DD will be happiest, and they are all actually quite different in vibe, so she must have a preference at this point.

💯

I firmly believe that the school ethos and focus are influenced by the ethnicity or culture of the parent body, and that the goal of general education should reflect diversity as a vital aspect, rather than just focus on results. I also respect the choices of others and will not judge if they disagree with me.

I am SE Asian and I totally agree with this and do not find the comment or the OP offensive at all. Nothing wrong with taking this into consideration at all OP as it’s just a fact. We have taken ethnic mix into consideration ourselves when looking at schools but somehow people get offended on our behalf…..I wouldn’t like to be the only white kid at a school which is majority Asian but different people have different circumstances and needs. So it’s whatever the OP is comfortable with.

Selective private schools do not provide general education. They select based on results of entrance exams. So - by definition they are results driven.
So - the composition of student body reflects the application pool.
There is no conspiracy.

“They select based on results of entrance exams. So - by definition they are results driven.
So - the composition of student body reflects the application pool.“

I would say slightly more than this, the student body is the compound composition of:

the application pool X those offered X those accepted the offer

It has self-selection elements in addition to results. And the product is not much different to the student composition we see in the highly selective grammar school in London anyway.

Agree no conspiracy, it is a two way selection process.

Charing Cross is the line that splits London into two worlds.

On the left, it’s all about:
St Paul Girls - LU/GL - any other schools
Westminister - St Paul Boys - King’s - any other schools

On the right, they don’t have a clue about these schools.
It’s bonkers.

"On the left, it’s all about:
St Paul Girls - LU/GL - any other schools
Westminister - St Paul Boys - King’s - any other schools

On the right, they don’t have a clue about these schools."

Yes, the hype is unbelievable.

Do have a think about why an increasing number of academically selective schools are moving towards alternatives to GCSE before dismissing them out of hand.
GCSEs are designed to be accessed by close to 100% of secondary school students. They are fine in lots of ways; usually the syllabus is broad but not always rigorous. LU, SPGS and quite a few others would rather upset parents (who know and understand GCSEs) but ensure that their year 10-11 students spend their 2.5-3 hours per week per subject being challenged and excited by a demanding curriculum more suited to them.
At the end they will be assessed and usually receive a grade 9-1 in the same way as GCSES, but those marks will be judged using the school's own criteria and often assessed using a wider variety of task. SPGS has been running these courses in a few subjects for 20 years and they are listed on UCAS forms in the same way as a GCSE grade. They are also arguably a better preparation for A-levels as they are almost always more challenging academically.

Thanks a lot for your feedback everyone. We have decided to send our daughter to Godolphin.
We believe this is the right choice for her and our family.

Congrats on making your decision - I’m sure your DD will be very happy at G&L, it seems like a wonderful school x

Congrats on making a choice. G&L is great. My dd is year 7 now and is very happy :)

Support with SPGS, GL,NLCS, City of London girls’ school:
My daughter is in year 5 now preparing for 11+. Currently, she is in an independent school .I am keen to know how I can prepare her for these independent schools. If you can, please help me with few pointers/resources for preparation (Maths, English) it will be very helpful. I also wanted to know if you took any extra support for creative writing? Thanks in advance.