How hard is it to get an A or A* at A-Level in a MFL if not a native speaker

[LondonHOPDad]

Hello

I was wondering how hard it is to get a top grade at A-Level if they are not a native speaker in a MFL (Spanish or French in particular).

Just that really, does the number of native speakers push the grade boundaries up, or is it negligible really and I am worrying about nothing?

Thank you.

My dc’s teacher says the native speaker thing is negligible but I don’t know if I believe that.

I don’t know about French and Spanish but I did Chinese. It was fucking impossibly to reach the high grade boundaries as an A/A* was 96%. I did feel it was unfair at the time but that’s life.

Yeah, forget it. Very harsh grading and the native speakers thing is not negligible.

Depends on child. DD is a fantastic mimic, does loads of voices, her Welsh accent in particular is superb (described by friend's very Welsh mum as you wouldn't know she wasn't actually Welsh, and she can speak quite a bit of Welsh too), so it came as no surprise she got A* in Spanish, she can just speak it like a native, even her ( native) Spanish teacher commented how well she speaks.

But I can imagine that native speakers do push the grade levels up considerably, I mean you'd do your own native language if that was an option, wouldn't you?

Being a native speaker is no guarantee of a top grade - I say this as an MFL teacher of over 30 years.

Some of my Y13 class last year did get A and A* grades - not because they are native speakers, or even because of anything that I did, I suspect - but because they worked their socks off.

I had 2 groups for different languages, so no bias towards one particular language, and I work in a state comprehensive.

They did a lot of work in their own time , which extended their vocabulary. They had an amazing grasp of grammar, and they were utterly fearless in the oral exams. They did an extra literature essay every week, of their own accord.

In contrast, the last native speaker I taught,some years ago, got a B grade. Sloppy grammar, and lack of awareness of what is needed to get a good grade - he was adamant that he didn't need any support from me at all.

It's also worth having a detailed look at the examiner reports for the exams, as they do give tips on what the best students do.

I got an A in French, it was a fair few years ago though (before A*). Not a native speaker.

DDs both got A stars in their languages (French, German and Spanish between them) as did many of their friends. The native speaker thing was a non issue.

I don’t think they were any harder than other A levels in terms of getting the top grades. Just the usual mix of hard work and ability.

Friend's daughter got an A* in Spanish. Not a native speaker.

DS2 has a friend who's bilingual as his mother is Mexican. He got an A in Spanish, not an A*.

It depends on the language and the relative proportions of native and non-native speakers.
If the number of people taking the qualification is relatively low and the number of native speakers within that small number of candidates relatively high, then the native speakers mop up a disproportionate number of the high grades (or did a few years ago). German was a case where this was supposedly happening. French and Spanish less so because the numbers of candidates are/were much higher. There was talk of changing the grade boundaries to account for this so as not to discourage non-native speakers. Not sure if it happened.
But in short: distortion of the top grade boundaries by native speakers is not negligible but varies by language. It is possible for non-native speakers to get the top grade but it may take a lot of work. Kids generally score around a grade lower at A level than (the letter grade equivalent of) GCSE. So someone who got 8 or 9 at GCSE would start with a baseline expectation of an A.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2017/apr/21/german-native-speakers-a-level-grades-ofqual

I think, like @homeEd2021, the impact on grade boundaries it varies by language.

We live in SW in an area with lost of families where French, German, Portuguese, Greek and/or Spanish is the language of one of the parents (I would imagine that, of those, Greek and Portuguese would be the one most impacted in terms of grade boundaries). Not all those children are 'native' speakers - some did actually grown up in another country and attended the educational system there for years (and they are 'native' standard, others have a mum / dad that has lived in the UK for decades and their only exposure to the country of origin are occasional holidays there (not that frequent if you are talking of South American countries). Some parents make an effort to teach their parents the second language themselves, but it depends on willingness, time available, etc. We know of plenty of cases where the children's knowledge of the language is very basic. Some, on the other hand, ensure that their kids attend weekend lessons in the language in question (e.g. friends' DC attending German school for 2-3 hours every weekend) and/or attend primary schools in the language (most notably in French).

So, family. links to a country do not necessarily mean that a DC is a native speaker. And when a DC with links to a country has a good command of the language, it usually comes with quite a significant time and effort investment.

As others have said, having family relations to a country is neither a necessary nor a sufficient factor in achieving A*.

FWIW I speak French fluently and I don't think I'd have obtained top marks in GCSE let alone A level. A level includes quite a bit of literature not just the language itself. And the way they teach and assess is using quite specific expectations which are not in fact how people speak! They also use wierd language which is a bit outdated or words that are not common. So there's a confidence that comes with native speakers but they may well trip up on the strict marking as they will speak and write natively not necessarily exactly to the exam marking scheme

It seems a shame that they have not found a way to separate out native and non native takers of MFL exams.

Both DDs got A*s in A levels (French and German). I think this was a combination of natural talent (no idea where that came from, certainly not me), hard work and exceptionally good teaching.

My eldest got an A-star in an MFL and so did several friends, all non-native speakers - I suspect because they worked extremely hard. I got a first-class degree in two MFLs that were non native, though I think that was more down to the course being very literature heavy, which is where I really excelled. It is a very frustrating situation though, it puts many able students off taking MFL for A level.

DS got an A in German - not a native speaker. Friend's son got an A in Spanish - native speaker, expected an A* but sloppy with written work as he spoke it at home but didn't write it at home.

Dd just got A star in Spanish mock a level
we certainly not native speakers!

A bit dífficult for the reasons highlighted above re: how would "native" be defined? We know DC that have lived in Spain / spend their hols in Spain but with no Spanish parents with a similar level of Spanish to those with Spanish families? Similarly, I can think of DC with. French parent that has not taught them French and others with a French parent that have attended weekly French lessons and speak French at home - evidently, their French proficiency is dramatically different.

Also, imho, it opens a Pandora's box - would we do the same for DC taking music A level with parents that are musicians and are able to provide a musical environment / tuition growing up? Same for art? Or not?

I did French and German many years ago and got 99% for both as a non-native speaker, including 100% scores on all the written and listening exams. A PP mentions the syllabus including lots of literature, but that's not (necessarily) the case - I think there may still be a literature component offered that schools can choose to teach, or replace with a different topic. Certainly even 25 years ago you didn't have to do literature as part of the A level - and my college chose not to offer it as it was perceived as difficult.

For French and Spanish, because so many pupils take them, the native speaker thing will be negligible. If your child is good at languages @LondonHOPDad and generally keen to watch French and Spanish films, read newspapers etc. it should be fine.

I'd also add that I have taught languages at university level and seen many students with top A level grades, and hardly any are working at 'native speaker' level.

DS is working at that level at the moment in French and we are definitely English. He puts in quite a bit of extra work, but in a fun way - using Duolingo, phone set to work in French, watching lots of French stuff on Netflix. Because he missed out on loads of stuff due to covid, we also organised an exchange last summer which was really beneficial. So I think it can be done.

I got an A in A level French, albeit this was 17 years ago so not sure if things are still the same. And I’m not a native speaker and haven’t used French since then but still remember most of what I learnt then.

Should add also that there was no A* at A level grade either when I did it so the way that it’s scored will be different now.

At A Level not all native speakers get A* due to the knowledge of politics & society needed. Also the study of film & book means they have to put the effort in. Sometimes grammar isn't always perfect.

I would say it's harder to get A*/A in MFL than other subjects though.

There are all sorts of issues here. The worst advantage is where parents who are speakers of the MFL and teachers. They absolutely know what to teach their dc to get the high grades. With family abroad, dc practice every summer and have done since birth. Of course they have an advantage.

Others learn to speak the language but don’t do anything else. So it’s conversational. However if you visit a county regularly you get to know colloquial and cultural differences and this definitely is an advantage at degree level. My DD had exam translations where insider knowledge would have been very helpful!

Also you don’t need an Astar to get to the best unis. You do need a great interest in the subjects but not necessarily all top grades.

Oooh interesting question.

So here are some thoughts:

· A lot lot fewer people take German A level than French or Spanish – so presumably the proportion of native speakers is higher (I realise that is a presumption on my part)
· The AQA A level grade boundaries in German over the last few years (ie since A level reform) have been much kinder to Germanists – the boundary for an A is a lot lower. In 2019 DD sat French and got a mid-range C; the exact same score for the German exam would have been a solid B. So that seems to give the lie to the native speaker concern, given my point above.
· We have no way really of knowing how many native speakers sit the exams – they are not going to declare it after all. And as a PP says - what is a native speaker? Someone who has lived there? Someone whose parent speaks it? I have certainly taught "native speakers" to whom the alleged advantage was non existent even at KS3 never mind KS4.

I do think it is or could be an issue – especially as fewer and fewer students sit MFL A levels. That’s a shame tho. To be totally honest, an A is certainly within the reach of a hardworking student who is prepared to put the time in and this is a key point reiterated in posts here.

Native speakers often come a cropper IME when they don’t have knowledge of the exam technique – for example they ignore the rubric and write far too much for the summary questions (which score loads of marks) and then any words over the 90-word boundary are just not marked.

A native speaker will also have to tackle all the serious topics that all students look at – these are not easy IMO. They will have to have intelligent things to say about a book and a film – again, not a given just bc you speak the language.

Yes of course it is overall easier for a native speaker to do well and MFL is not an easy A level, but then none of them are. DD freely admits she spent more time on her French than the other two put together.

But please don’t be put off by the native speaker concern - plenty of posts on here are saying the same I see.

In essence I second @Jaffapaffa's excellent post - I too have worked with a native speaker who deserved a B grade because they had done no exam prep. It's not an automatic pass to anything.

Thank you everyone for your posts, opinions and links to data - I really appreciate. It's been interesting reading the different views.

My take for our situation, is that an A grade or more is achievable with hard work and focus, and doing some work or fun things like watching french films etc and immersing as much as possible in the language.

So I'd say I'm feeling more positive about this, though not 100% positive. It does seem for French or Spanish it's possibly more likely, and for others maybe German if the grade boundaries have moved as suggested.

Thank you again everyone - really helpful.