SW London grammar and private year 7 entry 2024 - Continued

[11plus24]

New thread continued here

The very top schools will have 800+ applicants for 60 places. There will be little to separate from in the exams scores of many of those who are shortlisted for interview, or even after the interview. At that stage, the school can use the fact that a pupil is coming from a state school primary as a tie-breaker. Again, this only applies to top schools where there are more academically top-performing pupils than there are places.

Just got an email from our chosen school saying that they are having to put on an extra class due to over acceptance. Not sure how to feel about this!

Happy that the school is considered by families to be so good that it miscalculated massively its acceptance rate? 😊

@minimiffy I think both Alleyns and Emanuel have done this previously

@minimiffy @Digimoor ,agree that Alleyns and Emanuel have done this previously and an extra form sometimes in WHS and FHSS.

Thanks all, I think my initial instinct was it’s a bit cheeky to tell us now after we’ve paid the deposit but they wouldn’t know until all deposits were paid of course!
Then I am worried about teaching/facilities but they have promised measures for this.

From my reading of mumsnet posts this year it seems like there has been little WL movement and my theory is all schools over offered more than usual because they thought proposed VAT increase would put people off, but actually it had little effect so they had more acceptances than expected. So much less going to WL and now this extra form!

Do you mind sharing which school, @minimiffy ?

@minimiffy it happens sometimes - Surbiton High two years ago, I think (I seem to recall that, after acceptance day, they added two extra forms). I appreciate that it might come as a surprise but not unheard of.

Other schools have an extra form as part of their plans plan - e.g. WHS is putting an extra form next year as they have the space to have a bigger entry every so often and do it as long as it does not compromise the academics. They were very open with those applying and with offers.

In other cases the school is more popular than anticipated so either they put on an extra form or they go down the route of exploding offers (that parents hate and can really impact the school's reputation going forward). I suppose that the impact depends on what was the starting point. An increase in one form in a small school (let's say 2 forms' entry) will be felt much more than in a larger school. It depends on availability of space (indoors / outdoors - how crowded or not the facilities are) and also whether there are some specific services (e.g. buses, specific clubs, teams) which might be more difficult to get into. It also depends on what is important for you as a parent - was size a big factor when deciding on the school and, if so, has that significantly changed?

@ALongProcess It is Alleyn’s - so seems like they have done it in the past and hopefully able to deal with increase well.

Thanks @QuiteAJourney - good things to think about and I don’t think it changes anything materially, I was just a bit surprised.

DH also pointed out if they had been tighter on the offers we wouldn’t know if DD would have made the cutoff!

@minimiffy Given the numbers at Alleyn's and their setting, I would not be concerned if I were you.

Yes I agree they are a big and roomy enough school to cope. Explains the lack of waitlist movement too!

Yes I agree they are a big and roomy enough school to cope. Explains the lack of waitlist movement too!

Same for us minimiffy. I realise I don’t even know what the normal number of classes is 😳 I know it’s usually 150ish in a year so guess 6 classes and this year will be more like 175 and 7 forms? So perhaps less impact than, say, a 4 form school going to 5 forms. And slightly smaller classes than current year 7, they said, which is a plus.

See you in Sep… or maybe in May at the parents’ event 👋

In light with the VAT on fees, private schools might perfer over offering to secure a certain number of enrollments for economic viability, even if it may potentially lead to more classes. This strategy could mitigate the risks associated with a long waiting list, such as not securing enough students or failing to attract high-quality applicants. It is the pragmatic prospective for schools to maintain operational efficiency and financial stability.

Update from KGS:

As well as a growing Sixth Form, buoyed by the positive experience and outcomes at the top end of the school, we have been under some pressure to expand – just a little – at the lower end of the school. Over the last few years, we have had to make fewer and fewer 11+ offers to keep our numbers at a maximum of 125, five forms of entry. This year, we maintained the number of offers and this resulted in a record number of acceptances. We do not believe in having larger class sizes (or reneging on our offers), something we feel would diminish the experience of being at KGS.

Instead, we have taken the decision to create six forms of entry for 2024-25. The additional space offered by 100 London Road, as well as other future developments, offer us the opportunity to make better use of our facilities for the benefit of all students.

Crickey, this is getting interesting. As @PreplexJ points out, totally unsurprising that schools would want to make hay while the sun shines with the numbers. But with VAT risks etc it's unlikely that the numbers overall applying to the private sector have increased. And the population hasn't increased. So some schools must be losing out and having fewer acceptances?!

@NelliePerf Has KGS sent this today? We haven't received such a communication yet. This is also aligned to what Principle explained at the offer holders day but he said it was still unclear and was waiting to see the number of accepted offers.

Yes, sent today but to existing parents - not sure what the communication has been for incomers!

They also had something about VAT:

VAT, loss of Business Rate Relief and Fees

You will be aware that the independent sector potentially faces something of a crisis as the Labour Party has publicly declared their intention to remove the financial benefits of being a charity whilst not removing charitable status from independent school charities. This letter is not a political statement by any stretch of the imagination, but in laymen’s terms what this will mean for us at
Kingston Grammar School is that we will continue our outreach offerings to local schools and the wider community, as these are of course important to our core values and important if we are defined as a charity, but we will lose our business rate relief, and we will have to charge and pay VAT on fees. We will, however, continue to offer support to our wider community, and access in the form of means-tested fee assistance to those students and their families who demonstrate the ability to benefit from being at KGS. Kingston Grammar School remains wholly committed to its charitable objectives, and this will not change.
We strongly believe in being at the heart of Kingston-upon-Thames, playing our part and respecting our heritage.

What will happen to fees as a consequence of this policy will be of concern to us all. I can reassure you that we shall do all we can to offset this additional charge and bear the burden collectively. We will, of course, be able to reclaim VAT on some of our costs, which will help, particularly during periods of capital development. We shall also commit to using increased income, such as from the
gentle increase in student numbers, as well as some prudent and careful budgeting over the next few years to try and avoid any overly larger than usual fee rises. We want all our families to be able to stay with us, and for new families to be able to join us.

@NelliePerf thanks for sharing. I also got a letter few minutes ago. probably the similar one.

@ALongProcess , coed schools in London are getting very popular. Westminster going from girls sixth form, to coed in Westminster Under and aiming fully Coed. It seems families would like their kids to have the same education experiences and not gender silo. Saw MN saying Alleyn has an extra form this year.

@HawaiiWake Yes, schools can double their customer base by going co-ed and hence weather the financial climate. They might then present this as a move based on the benefits of co-ed education. But I don’t think that’s a worry for the top single-sex schools (St Paul’s, NLCS, City) who still get brilliant pupils. And some schools that become co-ed at sixth-form simply do it for the injection of high A-level grades.

I actually wonder about this - maybe the number of kids applying to private schools ARE increasing? Does anyone know?

Gosh what is happening with KGS sixth form? I am looking for 11+ next year but did not realise they were increasing Sixth Form and Year 7! Do you know how many more pupils and if there enough room there?

Well as discussed previously, there was a mini baby boom peaking in around 2012. So numbers of applicants to private could be up simply because of that.

I also get the impression that people have applied to more schools this year (5 or 6 seems normal rather than 3 or 4) which would obviously increase the number of applicants per school although not overall numbers.

sorry that was in response to CocoC

They are moving some sixth form activities to a new site 100 yards up the road, and that frees up space at the main site for an extra form. They are also redoing the science labs and a few other things. There was an implication that there’s a different solution for expansion in the long term and this neighbouring site is short term.