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Secondary education

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Original poster

Probably the most irritating question ever - but should they be giving full marks for an essay?

49 replies

wiltonian · 05/02/2024 20:44

This is a colossal humblebrag and I know this, but I need to ask the question before I ask questions at school.

DS is in Yr12 and doing an essay subject. For his last two essays, he has been given 30/30 for his essay.

Which is great, but he's a term in to the sixth form. And I'm not really happy about it for a number of reasons.

Firstly, I'd like them to keep stretching or even teaching him. Also, I've read the first one and it was far from perfect. Yes, it hits all the points you need for his subject (at least I assume it does) but there were some terrible sentences. Thirdly, he is a lazy arse and is going to stop working.

Parents evening is coming up. Do I mention any of this to his subject teacher? Or try and talk to the form teacher. Or shut up and delete this post?

OP posts:
Spirallingdownwards · 05/02/2024 20:45

Depending on the subject terrible sentences may not matter as long as it covers all the material and hits all markers in a mark scheme.

Advice400 · 05/02/2024 20:51

They can't give him 25/30 if he hit all the points and his spag, or maybe pag nowadays, was sufficient for the marks scheme.

I don't see why he should stop working as the next essay will be on a different subject, so he will have to keep working at current level.to keep getting 30/30?

If he is lazy it will meet him at some point but I can't see why a teacher should undermark him if he's met the requirements.

Maybeicanhelpyou · 05/02/2024 20:56

I agree with you @wiltonian, there’s always room for improvement. No one’s ever perfect!

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 05/02/2024 20:56

They will be using a marskscheme. If it's worth 30/30 according to the markscheme, then that's what it's worth. Doesn't mean he will keep getting 30/30 in all different parts of the course. Why on earth do you think they'd stop teaching him or stretching him?

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 05/02/2024 21:00

I agree with you @wiltonian, there’s always room for improvement. No one’s ever perfect!

Something doesn't necessarily have to be perfect to get full marks. Certainly not in my subject (languages).

AGoingConcern · 05/02/2024 21:00

Getting a perfect score on an assignment in no way implies the student is done learning. It means they fulfilled all of the criteria of that one assignment.

If you complain about this at parents' evening it will absolutely be one of "those stories" the teacher tells down the line.

bigTillyMint · 05/02/2024 21:00

Alevels have mark schemes. If they rock all the boxes then surely it’s full marks?
It’s not like writing essays at uni where it’s basically at the lecturers discretion/their personal judgement.

Original poster
wiltonian · 05/02/2024 21:00

@Maybeicanhelpyou I'm glad it's not just me, that's exactly what I think. With a side order of, the A Level isn't everything so how about teaching him how to write a better essay at the next level. Or just write better sentences?

OP posts:
Pieceofpurplesky · 05/02/2024 21:01

What subject? Many subjects don't even have to look at sentence structure

saraclara · 05/02/2024 21:03

Since I too have to kind of boast to inform, my DD got 100% on one of her (essay based) AS levels. So clearly you can make every point in the marking system, even in an essay subject exam.

cansu · 05/02/2024 21:05

What are you going to say? Why didn't you knock off some marks for sloppy sentences? Maybe you need to step back a bit now he is sixth form. Why not ask him if he wants your help and input?

Original poster
wiltonian · 05/02/2024 21:05

I think things have changed a lot since I was at school. When there were indeed no mark schemes for essays. And so your essay could always be better than it was. What with us all being teenagers who did not, despite what we believed, know it all.

OP posts:
Maybeicanhelpyou · 05/02/2024 21:05

@AllProperTeaIsTheft
if it’s full marks, it implies it’s perfect!

I appreciate it’s a mark scheme and that’s not the case, but in my line of work you don’t get 100% unless it’s 100%, which means perfect. Sorry!

saraclara · 05/02/2024 21:06

I do think that a teacher could still make a point of correcting grammar or talking to the student about improving their sentence construction though, while still giving them full marks for content.

AGoingConcern · 05/02/2024 21:09

Maybeicanhelpyou · 05/02/2024 21:05

@AllProperTeaIsTheft
if it’s full marks, it implies it’s perfect!

I appreciate it’s a mark scheme and that’s not the case, but in my line of work you don’t get 100% unless it’s 100%, which means perfect. Sorry!

But this isn't your line of work. It's A-level marking.

OP, it's absolutely true that A-level grades are not the only thing schools should be teaching for, but when teachers mark practice papers to A-level scheme, that's what they need to do. That in no way means the students aren't learning how to improve outside of that mark - A levels don't encapsulate learning and neither do practice paper scores.

Advice400 · 05/02/2024 21:21

Full marks isn't perfect. It means it's hit all of the points for a mark scheme at the appropriate level.

I'm sure a post graduate in the subject would answer the question even better, but that level cannot be expected of an A level student.

If you want to raise essay writing skills in particular, then maybe approach it that way at parents evening. That you notice these could be improved and is there any provision in the curriculum to teach and expand these skills.

shepherdsangeldelight · 06/02/2024 07:37

Full marks doesn't mean it's perfect though - it means he's made all the points he needs to get marks. IMO that's a failing of the UK school exam system - that you can pass exams by knowing how to pass exams, not by being an expert at the subject. Writing amazingly creative essays including opinions that differ from the "standard" might make you a better student but it won't get you as many marks.

No point mentioning it to his teachers - they can't change the exam system.

Your DS is still going to have to learn the material for all his other topics including different essay techniques, so he can't stop working just yet :)

MrsJellybee · 06/02/2024 07:59

There’s also a difference between AS and A2. The AS component of the A level studied in Year 12 is often a bit easier than the A2 studied in Year 13. I taught boys who breezed through the AS with mostly full marks then came a cropper at A2.

lanthanum · 06/02/2024 10:39

The key thing is whether the feedback included some ideas for improvement - obviously not improvements that will affect the mark, but improvements to the sentence structure, or "here's a point you didn't include but would have made it even better" (because sometimes there are five good points to be made and you get the marks for mentioning at least four of them).

One essay doesn't make an A-level, and he needs to keep coming up with the goods, probably on more demanding topics. And if he's going to go to university, their standards may be higher.

I doubt he's going to stop trying on further essays because he's got a good score this time, and he's hardly likely to ignore the feedback entirely.

PuttingDownRoots · 06/02/2024 10:41

If he got 30/30 on his Maths exam... what would you think?

shepherdsangeldelight · 06/02/2024 11:24

PuttingDownRoots · 06/02/2024 10:41

If he got 30/30 on his Maths exam... what would you think?

I'd think he'd got all the questions correct and showed any interim working steps required.

It would not necessarily mean that his answers were perfect in that he might have used a sub-optimal method to get to them.

clary · 06/02/2024 11:38

Obviously 30/30 doesn’t mean it’s perfect. But of course it’s possible to get full marks on any question. Otherwise what’s the point of the full mark? In fact this is explicitly noted in the exam mark scheme.

To boast on my DD’s behalf, her Eng lit GCSE was so excellent that the school recalled it as an exemplar (first year of new spec tbf so they needed some) – but her 30/30 essays would not have passed muster as her Eng lit degree essays I don’t think! For GCSE tho they were excellent – and ticked every box for the mark scheme. I doubt if there were no spelling mistakes or other errors tho.

Similarly in MFL which is my subject; I have certainly sat in a moderation meeting (old spec) and agreed with colleagues that a piece of speaking or written work needed to be awarded full marks. Doesn’t mean there was no way it could be better. How ridiculous would that be? The candidate could have used even more complex vocab or the past subjunctive – but in terms of the mark scheme, which as @AGoingConcern says, it what is being looked at in an exam context, those things were not needed, and it ticked every box.

Your son has done really well with this essay - but the teacher should be teaching him many more things as he goes on. And I am sure they are. Tbh research shows verbal feedback is much more productive than written – so they would do better to say to him “this was great for xyz reason, but remember also abc can improve your work” than writing it for him not to read.

theresnolimits · 06/02/2024 11:43

Full marks doesn’t mean it’s perfect. It means for that level, it’s hit all the criteria. Of course if the teacher had written the essay or an undergraduate it would be better. But for that level, it’s full marks.

I am an exam marker and we are often berated for not awarding the full range of marks. For knocking off a few marks just to avoid giving full marks.

The teacher should have given feedback. What has made it full marks so the students knows what they’re doing well?

I don’t know the subject but SPG is not always on the mark scheme. Or it has a separate allocation of marks but doesn’t affect the content mark.

I do wish people would realise teachers do a lot of training and surprisingly know a lot more about exams/ marking than parents. Not always, but generally …

sharptoothlemonshark · 06/02/2024 11:46

Full marks does not mean it is perfect, it means he got every mark on the mark scheme - good for him! I hope you were really proud of him

BurbageBrook · 06/02/2024 11:47

There are two separate things that you're conflating here a bit. Marking and feedback. The teacher should definitely be giving full marks if he's achieved full names according to the markscheme. However, it would still be helpful to have feedback on how to improve. It might be full marks at A Level but how could the student achieve uni level work, for example? Maybe your DC could ask his teacher for feedback on how to stretch himself. I do agree with other posters that you need to step back a bit though, he's sixth form now and this shouldn't really be on your radar to this extent!

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