A-Level Maths, Computer Science and...?

[IngridMcDonald]

Hi, DD is about to choose her A Levels, she is in Year 11 and already has a grade 8 in Maths GCSE and is doing Further Maths GCSE this summer. She is certain she wants to do Maths and Computer science at A-Level with a view to do a Computer Science related degree. She does not want to do Further Maths at A-Level. So, the question is does she do Economics or Business A-Level with Maths and Computer science? She is doing business GCSE and doesn't really enjoy it though. The other option is History A-Level. She doesn't want to carry on with a science subject after GCSE. It really feels like she can't decide on the 3rd A-Level choice. Any advice greatly received.

She should do something she enjoys, A-level is a big step up from GCSE and I think they need to be interested in the subject to do well and keep motivated. Obviously if they need a particular subject for a certain degree/career path then they need to suck it up!
i also think you need to look at the subjects and try and get a balance between maths and written subjects plus look at how much coursework there is versus exams. DD dismissed one option as it would mean 4 very coursework heavy subjects and DS1 went for Georgraphy as his 4th as also doing physics, maths and further maths so Georgraphy which is loves was a good complement to the maths heavy subjects.

I would have said Physics to keep doors open.Obviously it’s a science though! Geography would be good too. What else does she enjoy in her GCSE subjects? What do computer science related degrees ask for? A third subject can probably be whatever she wants if maths and CS are 100% relevant.

Economics is interesting at that level. Need analytical skills to enjoy it so I'd say it goes well with her choices.

Look at Informed Choices website , to see impact of choices on university courses. And the A Level matching tool on Sacu Student - can play around with the third A Level and see what impact it might have (or not) on course choices.

Mine was in a similar quandary. He had intended to do Maths,CS and Business but was not particularly excited about Business. He chose it more because his other strength was sciences, but he really did not want to do a science A-level.

Ds got a good grade in his DT GCSE, and decided to do 3d Design instead of Business. He is loving it, and finds that the 3 subjects complement each other very well. Also, no massive essays.

What doesn't she enjoy about Business Studies? Economics is a bit more abstract (and gets more mathematical at university level), and might be more to her liking. Do any local sixth forms do tasters of subjects they might not have done at GCSE? Can she borrow a textbook to have a look at?

Before rejecting further maths, she might want to just look at which universities prefer their computer scientists to have it. (Even if they will accept applicants who don't have it, it may be hard work if others have it and she doesn't. Also, I think sometimes they are less sympathetic to those who have chosen not to do it, rather than just their school not offering it.) However if she's checked that out, then fair enough if she doesn't want to do it.

I was going to say physics. If she likes history she could do that? I don't think it will make a great deal of difference so I think she should just do which one she thinks she will enjoy the most.
Business (according to my son) is quite an easy A Level.

My son wants to do the same (maths and computer science - but not further maths) with the likelihood of then doing some sort of computer science related degree.

He has been weighing up doing either physics (which he felt was a better match but isn’t his favourite) or English language. I was somewhat surprised when his physics teacher said without doubt to do English. Turns out he is a degree course assessor and his advice is that maths and English a level will be accepted for pretty much any degree course, whereas physics would really narrow it down. Plus he said engineers, coders, mathematicians etc generally can’t write for toffee (his words not mine!) so it would be an excellent skill set to have.

In our school they encourage you to apply for 4 and drop one if you can't decide.

Has she looked at the curricula for the A level economics and business to get a feel for what's entailed in them?

While physics undoubtedly does keep a lot of doors open in combination with maths and CS, if she isn't keen on any sciences then maybe they'd be doors she'd never want to step through.

One question might be whether she's got any sense of what sort of computing she might be interested in eventually doing. There's some which is very mathsy, some might overlap with electronics, some might be business/economics focussed etc etc. Good communication skills are definitely useful ... I've just seen the poster recommending English language, in many roles it's not much use if you can communicate brilliantly with computers but poorly with humans. (Of course you don't necessarily need an A level in English or an essay subject to develop that ... I work with STEM types who can mostly write well, even if English isn't their first language.)

Does she do any languages? Latin or Spanish might be great options if she does any language GCSEs. DT works well as well. To be honest the third one could be any subject that she enjoys. Physics is definitely useful as well but any subject you choose at A-Level should be one she enjoys and is doing well in.

If she wants to do a CSci degree then the third subject is there to give her the third grade, so pick something she enjoys and thinks she'll be good at. Incidentally most don't require CSci A level, either.

But, it's good to keep options open. Both my eldest two children have changed their minds (several times) about what degree they wanted to do, during the course of A levels. If she's absolutely sure she's not a scientist, History or Economics are both still good options.

Has she looked to see which History syllabus her school do? That might help decide. She could also ask to look at an Economics textbook/revision book/course notes to see if it seems interesting.

If there is any possibility of starting 4 A levels and dropping one, that is a really good idea.

Thanks for all the responses! She finds Business boring but it is hard to tell if this is because of the teacher or the actual course content, the A-level teacher would be different. She is interested in programming and software development and maybe software engineering. Now looking closely at the curriculum guides on the school website, Business and Economics look quite similar. Also informed choices and Sacu student look really helpful, thanks.

A level Maths, Computer Science and Psychology could be a combination to consider.

Economics is more macro level (think the uk economy) whilst Business is more allied to running a company. However DC should just choose one. If DCs ever start up a business , business A level has its uses.

Lots of dc in this country specialise early and avoid essays. They do indeed end up with poor writing skills and are not as employable as they should be. English and Maths are two of the maligned “facilitating” subjects (as described by the teacher without using the word) but often need a third A level, eg physics for engineering, French for French etc to get on these courses.

Hi @IngridMcDonald !

I would consider what career she might want eventually. And then I would look at the web pages of specific courses at, say, three different universities and their Entry Requirements in terms of A Levels.

Technology study means lots of maths and some physics. So whilst Maths, Computer Science plus another A Level might be enough, many universities would prefer Physics or Further Maths as a third A Level. Some, such as Imperial College, might specifically exclude Business Studies.

The universities considered must be commensurate with ability level. The more competitive the more likely FM is good prep for making an application that gets a place. CS and similar courses are sought after so judge what unis are a possibility.

Sorry, my first post was a bit irrelevant on this thread as an answer to OP. DS1 is doing Further Maths but as a 4th not a 3rd A level, and my understanding is that this is normal with FM, so it's still possible to take another choice. The entry requirements are higher for overall GCSE grades for 4 A levels though, as well as needing an 8 for FM compared to a 7 for Maths at the (5) places DS1 was offered. And Further Maths itself is seen as quite hard. I would go through Computer Science courses, and possibly other courses of interest with your DD to check that she has a good chance of getting on to those that appeal to her without the FM.

As AI will be taking over most of the maths and computer jobs in the next 10 years, she should choose something with a future resilience with regards to jobs.

Bollocks.
The people who can design good computer code and write clever algorithms are the ones who will be in higher demand than ever.

Further maths is useful for computer science, and depending on the course she selects, she might be increasing her workload at university as she will have to learn things that others have covered.

Some courses however are not so maths-y, so desirability of FM depends on where she is aiming for.

Psychology or physics are good choices, but with maths and comp sci you could have anything as the third subject, so she can choose whichever excites her. English language could also be a good one

But if she has any thoughts that she might want to choose something else, then physics (good for all engineering) or chemistry (which when combined with maths opens all STEM, except squishy biology stuff)

or chemistry (which when combined with maths opens all STEM, except squishy biology stuff)
Chemistry and maths without physics don't 'open all STEM'.
However... if you're into programming and software development but have a strong interest in science, then a degree in that can lead to scientific software development

Completely agree with this. If she would be aiming for a top ranking university then although they will not say further maths she will be competing against applicants with further maths. There are sometimes statistics on the university website stating what applicants were successful and for everything else there is google and Freedom of Information requests that ask this question too. Further maths isn't offered at all sixth forms/colleges and some universities want it but can't state it as it would disadvantage some applicants. A very small percentage of students take 4 A levels and half of them take further maths.

At the end of the day if the course is oversubscribed which a lot of them are for computer science, then they cherry pick. DC is doing computer science at a university in the top 10 and will tell you that you absolutely need further maths to make your life easier. Business Studies isn't as well regarded as Economics too.

That just links to Russell Group courses. There really, really are other universities. It is a good place to start though

Physics, if she is interested in computer science then she might also be interested in electical and electronic engineering or robotics which she won’t have any experience of so far.