A-Level Maths, Computer Science and...?

[IngridMcDonald]

Hi, DD is about to choose her A Levels, she is in Year 11 and already has a grade 8 in Maths GCSE and is doing Further Maths GCSE this summer. She is certain she wants to do Maths and Computer science at A-Level with a view to do a Computer Science related degree. She does not want to do Further Maths at A-Level. So, the question is does she do Economics or Business A-Level with Maths and Computer science? She is doing business GCSE and doesn't really enjoy it though. The other option is History A-Level. She doesn't want to carry on with a science subject after GCSE. It really feels like she can't decide on the 3rd A-Level choice. Any advice greatly received.

@Dotchange But Bath and St Andrews are top 10 for this subject and not RG. They will still be competitive. If dc wants a wider choice of unis, FM keeps more doors open. Loughborough is 17 in CUG but does anyone think FM wouldn’t be useful for their course?

I know a couple of people who did maths/ computing A-level with subjects that seem unrelated - one did music because he wanted to get into digital recording - technical side of music industry. The other art, which is more common. He's had a very successful career in the film industry.

That’s what I’m saying- Russel Group unis are not the be all and end all. There are other great universities which are not in the self described gang ( like the unis you listed)

If dc wants a wider choice of unis, FM keeps more doors open.

If the student wants to do it, and if can get a good grade. The OP unambiguously said her DD didn't want to do it. And if there's any chance they may change their mind about uni course, doing 3 inc FM can close doors too.

Well 17 of the top 20 are RG. They might be in their own club but they are the majority at the top for this subject. My point was that the three others won’t be any easier to get into. Coventry or Teeside will be.

Imperial (which is an excellent place for computer science) lists maths as a requirement.

Computer Science, further maths and physics are listed as desirable

So the optimal combination would be maths, further maths, computer science and physics.

For the third A Level I'd suggest physics. Alternatively chemistry, economics or history could be good choices either to expand scientific options or improve writing skills.

Then take further maths as the 4th a level. I think further maths is best taken as a 4th subject otherwise the curriculum becomes very narrow.

Obviously all depends what your child's interests and strengths are.

Definitely look beyond the self - defined marketing group that is the Russell Group. The point about informed choices website (which is one of their marketing tools) is that it does set the info out really clearly and is a good first step in their research. But yes def great unis that aren’t RG.

I think taking in to account the housing at the uni is increasingly important too. Has a massive impact if you attend Manchester but have to live in Salford, or Bristol but end up in Wales etc

Obviously all depends what your child's interests and strengths are.

The rest of that post was therefore somewhat irrelevant except to imply that maybe don't apply to imperial if you explicitly don't want to do fm or another science ... which is fine as there are so many other good courses. There's plenty of software/computing jobs needing 'softer' skills or other types of domain knowledge.

Is Alevel electronics an option or possibly specialisation within DT? Or really makes you go back to basics of how and why computers work

@ErrolTheDragon Well I suppose it could be useful to those wanting to know what the ideal subjects would be for those wanting to study computer science at university. It's quite competitive.

I wouldn't say someone without all those A Levels shouldn't apply to Imperial though. If their application is good overall why not? They might just want to put in a couple of safer choices as well. I bet Imperial struggle to attract well qualified female candidates.

Software dev here. In our company, if she has a degree in comp sci or something similar we don’t really care what the third A-level is.

I'd have thought many/most kids with any interest in those areas would have some experience by yr 11 - even if not at school, there's so many kits and clubs available, electronics/robotics are much more accessible than other types of engineering. (As is programming, of course).

@Whistle67 Do you know anything about Imperial College? “It’s quite competitive”
is the understatement of the century. It’s hugely competitive. They won’t have students without FM for their CS courses and can even find women with the right qualifications as they recruit from all over the world! CS is now a hugely competitive course in many unis. So of course Imperial can ask for top qualifications and desirable there means you should have those subjects. Top 10 unis won’t be much different. Below that, pick ones that are asking for slightly lower grades or don't have FM listed as desirable.

I’ve found quite a few (especially girls) don’t know they have an interest until later on. Also, quite a few choose computer science as they like tinkering with code and programming but then find out that CS Alevel and uni is more theory. So electronics/ electrical/ robotics might be more of what they thought CS would be. Both are awesome of course!

You may be right, @OhBeAFineGuyKissMe - but it'd be quite a leap for someone who hasn't already developed an interest to do an A level that they otherwise wouldn't have (shes said she doesn't want to do a science).

It's certainly a great pity more girls aren't introduced to those areas early, electronics alongside CS are two of the fields where women are most underrepresented and I can't for the life of me understand why. I write scientific software, DD is an electronics design engineer - quite a bit of her work is programming the devices they design. You don't need physical strength just brains and creativity, small hands are an advantage for electronics - these areas should be dominated by women! (As programming historically was, of course).

My DD is in Y12 doing Maths, Computer Science, Psychology and Further Maths with a view to doing either maths or computer science at uni.

At her school you either have to do Further Maths or an EPQ as an extra curricular choice. She really didn't want to do an EPQ so opted for Further Maths. It's actually her favourite subject now.

We've been researching Universities and courses recently and totally agree with the comments about further maths and computer science degrees. Obviously depends what her grades are likely to be and which universities she's looking at, but I would definitely advise looking at entry requirements as part of the decision making process.

Double check entry requirements - I should have done physics and had to do a foundation year because I didn't (well, I started, but it was a long time ago, and the Physics teacher didn't believe girls should do physics and I let myself be bullied out of it after 2 terms)

I'd say go for the subject she will get the highest grade in.

I'd also suggest an essay based subject, arriving at uni having not written an essay / report / anything more than a paragraph for two years can be a shock to the system.

Please only choose Economics if she understands that about 60% of the exam work involves essay writing and that she will need to express an opinion and analyse complex ideas with no "right" answer.

I am getting a bit frustrated teaching STEM specialists who are surprised by the requirement to write several pages of prose and require mucho handholding!

Presumably if her other likely alternative is history she's happy with essay writing?

My son is very similar, he Def wanted maths and computer science (both 9 at GCSE ) but wasn't set on 3rd A level except knew he didn't really want to do physics as he didn't especially enjoy it. We considered economics, something wild like film studies, further maths. In the end he chose psychology as 3rd A level and is enjoying it and tracking for A*.

I wouldn't suggest FM as a third A-level anyway -as it would be too restrictive - many courses don't see it as a third.

DS took physics - I think he'd have prefer chemistry but he felt physics was better fit with maths, FM and computer science and he's doing well.

History if she likes it I don't think is terrible choice and if she likely to enjoy well worth doing - but she should look at course requirements - but psychology might be worth looking at as counts as a science subject but has the essay writing.

Our eldest changed her mind during application process - so Y13 - so went for two subjects in her UCAS applications- and ended up much more interested in last minute area which is a good fit for her. DS Y12 who'd also been set on some form of computer science course is now starting to consider electrical engineering as possibility.

So I'd suggest doing something she enjoys and stands chance of doing well in is very probably better than doing a subject that "fits" better she not so keen on.

I think it's always worth looking at actual A-level papers. A lot of GCSEs are very "chunked'.

Psychology might be useful for AI/ML?

As a PP noted, English helps with report writing - I have an English A level and ended up being the civil engineering report writer in my department.

My main worry is she doesn't sound that enthusiastic about either economics or business studies. And economics is a bit marmite. The FM argument is a bit redundant I think if it's under discussion as a 3rd. Double maths and CS suits a few but is too narrow to be ideal for most.

Definitely worth looking at the exam papers. Has she cast a wider net already - psychology, environmental science, sociology perhaps? History would not be a wacky choice. Taking both maths and history seems quite popular among DD's most able friends, and as PP say would not be wasted as report writing is endemic to many tech jobs.