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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Homophobia in school

37 replies

TooManyPlatesInMotion · 18/01/2024 20:44

DS is 13 (y8) and goes to a boy's Catholic school (state). The majority of boys are Catholic or otherwise Christian, and most are from culturally very conservative backgrounds. We are a C of E family ourselves.

DS has a group of friends, is generally quite outgoing and laid back and is doing very well academically, loves sport too. The school has really helped him improve his motivation and engagement.

But - and it is a BIG but - I am so sick and disappointed with the general culture of casual homophobia and misogyny, expressed constantly between the boys. My DS has told me about this and when he first started some of the language came home, so we have had discussions about how unacceptable and hurtful that language is.

It is now definitely really affecting my DS who, I suspect, may be questioning where he fits in, and his own sexuality. Some of that is obviously conjecture on my part, but he knows my door is open if he wants to talk about it.

DS is so, so angry in a way he struggles to talk about and has now started getting into fights, eg when hanging out playing football after school. He is thin on the details but there has been at least once occasion when he has told me of suggestions that he is gay, plays like a "batty boy" etc. I am not condoning the fighting on his part and have spoken with him about it. There is no excuse for fighting, regardless of provocation, but I am really worried about his wellbeing.

My issue is with the school and what I do now. The language and culture is worse than when I was at secondary school in the late 1990s, when gay/queer/lezza were the worst insults going and no one came out at school, even in 6th form. I cannot believe it is still like this in London in 2023.

Surely the school have safeguarding obligations, a duty to promote a culture of inclusivity and " British values" (or whatever it is called) in PSHE, regardless of it being a Catholic school?

Has anyone dealt with anything similar or have any advice?

Thanks.

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MyGooseisTotallyLoose · 18/01/2024 20:58

Surely the school have safeguarding obligations, a duty to promote a culture of inclusivity and " British values" (or whatever it is called) in PSHE, regardless of it being a Catholic school? why would a Catholic school not have to follow safeguarding?

TooManyPlatesInMotion · 18/01/2024 21:03

I wasn't suggesting they don't have to opt out of safeguarding. I was wondering about what their PSHE obligations are as I thought religious schools could opt out of some bits of that @MyGooseisTotallyLoose. Of course safeguarding still applies? And that it might help my when dealing with the school if I could frame some of the issues in terms of safeguarding - as surely homophobic language and bullying is a safeguarding issue?

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noblegiraffe · 18/01/2024 21:06

I'm pretty sure that a Catholic school would want to deal with homophobia and bullying same as any other school.

Let them know and they can do some work on it in PSHE/assembly.

In the meantime, would DS like to report the specific pupils?

TooManyPlatesInMotion · 18/01/2024 21:21

I have asked him this @noblegiraffe and he says he doesn't want to give individual names.

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Dacadactyl · 18/01/2024 21:26

I think this isn't down to the culture of the school, more the culture of the boys' homes.

I would bring it up with the school.

newtlover · 18/01/2024 21:26

definitely talk to the school about it
I'd cite the Equality act and their public sector duty
also mention bullying
can you widen his social circle? football or something with some more civilised young people

Loubelle70 · 18/01/2024 21:29

My grandson goes to Catholic school...there is a lot of homophobia...racism.(towards white, black, asian, everyone!)..disability discrimination, the misogyny is massive too..i have to pull him up all the time to explain that those attitudes are not acceptable, to the point that its getting really ridiculous..he is also confused. I have no idea how to deal with it either other than mentioning why it isnt acceptable, as yes, they won't 'grass' on anyone

TooManyPlatesInMotion · 18/01/2024 21:40

Thanks @newtlover . He has some friends outside of school too and does do other stuff - music, drama. Both outside of school, which helps.

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TooManyPlatesInMotion · 18/01/2024 21:40

Sorry to hear this @Loubelle70 . It's extremely depressing.

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stomachameleon · 18/01/2024 21:52

I am not sure it's a 'Catholic school' problem and more a boys that age issue. Catholic schools will have to adhere to policies and have safeguarding/ psd/ pshe/ British values/ life skills lessons.

Boys (and girls) that age can say horrible things to each other to test boundaries with adults and each other. They are learning what is ok and acceptable.

You should be able to see what schools teach and ask for confirmation of what's covered. Speak to pastoral support as well as see whether there is an issue in the year itself.

TooManyPlatesInMotion · 18/01/2024 22:08

I agree to an extent @stomachameleon , and I am certainly not laying the blame at the door of the school entirely, but there is no getting round the fact that their intake is v v culturally and socially conservative, so I suspect many boys reflect this in their attitudes.

I will have a look and see if I can establish what is taught and contact the head of year as well.

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Crispsandwichrock · 18/01/2024 22:13

I don't think being at an all boys school is helping him. And the fights outside of school - potentially his behaviour could be reported to the police, but so could any homophobic abuse. Absolutely speak to the school. You know they will need names to do all that much about it though. What does your son himself want to happen? It's important to involve him.

downtonuton · 18/01/2024 22:33

I think this is a Catholic School thing - also London but DS came out in Y7 at an undersubscribed school in 'requires improvement' and it was never much of an issue. Some minor comments, not total plain sailing but no bullying and he is not one of the super popular kids either.

We did find the people would use 'gay' as an insult, but not against gay people.

in gaming etc - 'man that was so gay' when someone missed a shot or similar when playing sports. I even heard him do it once. I did point out he shouldn't and he did stop but it's just something kids say (and shouldn't). But it's not picking on gay kids or saying they're bad or anything.

My friend has a gay son in mixed Catholic school and it is a different story - not able to be himself there and no support from the school really - and kids do get picked on there

stomachameleon · 18/01/2024 22:49

@TooManyPlatesInMotion I imagine that's the case both ends of the spectrum. I teach in a PRU and the language and colourful views I hear would make your hair curl.

HooverIsAlwaysBroken · 19/01/2024 09:08

I am so sorry to hear about your son, it must be so hard.

We had a related issue a few years ago when there were unfortunate, not age appropriate talks around LGBTQ+ issues in the school without notifying the parents. The schools intention was probably good but many of the boys (including DS) became convinced that you could change sex based on your behaviour and, as they were happy as boys, they worried and started to reject a lot of the activities which the talk had mentioned as girly (music, drama, arts).

now a few years down the line, they reject the entire LGBTQ+ movement, possibly because they are cross about that initial scare (I had DS asking me if one of his male friends was/would become a girl due to their hobbies).

It is quite weird, any comment on racism is abhorrent to these boys but there is open season on LGBTQ+ issues.

we are coming down as a ton of bricks on homophobia and misogyny and I would like to think that DS is bringing those attitudes to school. If you are friendly with any of the parents I would put some feelers out on what they have heard? I would never tolerate homophobic comments and I can assure you that I would take it extremely seriously if I suspected that DS made any comments which could be interpreted that way.

Nottodaty · 19/01/2024 09:23

My daughter goes to a Catholic school - they would not accept any of this behaviour. One girl who used the term Gay to a boy - (your acting so gay) was pulled up on it immediately and it was then followed up with a year assembly- acceptance, bullying. As a school they have PHSE sessions just like any other school. We are usually informed if it’s to with a more sensitive subject to enable any support a child may need.

I would definitely speak to the school. They need to ensure the message is sent out and behaviour improved!

Sadly it may be because it’s an all boys school - friends that are teacher have always said , if they had daughters they would send them to all girls school, sons to a mixed!

WinterSnowFox · 19/01/2024 09:25

My son goes to a regular secondary school he is year 7 and is called gay constantly and homophobic remarks

TooManyPlatesInMotion · 19/01/2024 10:20

@HooverIsAlwaysBroken yes, this is exactly it, there seems to be a rejection amongst the boys of the entire LGBTQ+, and indeed a reaction against it. It really is open season.

In the circumstances you describe, it does sound like the school mismanaged some of the initial conversations around the issues though!!

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25Green · 19/01/2024 10:53

The best thing you can do is have open and frank conversations with your DS. Be there for him.

My brother went to very well known London catholic school in late 80's early 90's and unfortunately what you describe is happening, happened to him. I do feel that part of the issue with catholic schools which I feel breeds this mentality is what people refer too as 'catholic guilt'.

I would take the school to task about this behaviour, Stonewall has a lot of support in this field. Does the school have an LGBT+ society? Maybe trying to get some speakers in? Lessons on LGBT+ history, celebrated in February?

Like I say the best you can do for him is keep that conversation open with him and try and guide him the best way you can.

TooManyPlatesInMotion · 19/01/2024 11:12

Thank you @25Green . I am very sorry to hear that your brother had such a horrible time of it.

I am open with my DS. He knows he can talk to me and ask me anything and that I will always help. But he is 13 and angry and doesn't want to have in depth chats with his Mum (I would have felt the same at his age too tbh!).

Absolutely no LGBT+ society or anything similar. I wish there was!

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Foxesandsquirrels · 19/01/2024 11:35

Tbh I don't think this is a catholic school issue. It seems to be very common at the moment with young people. It isn't an excuse as their behaviour is disgusting, but I have found young people are becoming more and more disengaged from the LGBTQ+ and trans issues and are seeing it as all a bit of a joke. I think the push in all of this has caused things to actually get worse than better in terms of acceptance. A lot of young people think it's all a joke and it's causing a dangerous problem.

SquirrelSoShiny · 19/01/2024 11:44

Foxesandsquirrels · 19/01/2024 11:35

Tbh I don't think this is a catholic school issue. It seems to be very common at the moment with young people. It isn't an excuse as their behaviour is disgusting, but I have found young people are becoming more and more disengaged from the LGBTQ+ and trans issues and are seeing it as all a bit of a joke. I think the push in all of this has caused things to actually get worse than better in terms of acceptance. A lot of young people think it's all a joke and it's causing a dangerous problem.

Honestly I agree with you. I think Stonewall and trans activists have so much to answer for. Most of the worst activists are straight men who fancy women. Meanwhile LGB people who just want a quiet life are now having to watch the backlash unfolding and watching teen attitudes going back to the 70s. It is absolutely dismaying.

TooManyPlatesInMotion · 19/01/2024 11:44

Absolutely this @Foxesandsquirrels . It is a source of hilarity amongst many of the kids - constant jokes about trans issuing, identifying as x/y/z, and a real push back against the progress that has been made in recent years on LGBTQ+ issues.

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stayathomer · 19/01/2024 11:51

Son in a Catholic school in Ireland and they regularly address bullying, have awareness talks about heterosexuality and homosexuality and people being allowed to be who they want to be etc. saying that I’ve had big arguments with ds about his language- he had a big beef with the ‘f’ word being taken out of the fairytale of New York at Christmas. His best friend is gay and I told him if people were calling his friend that he wouldn’t feel the same and he said his friend feels the same. He also regularly makes ‘identifying’ jokes and I told him to leave it, that there’s people out there just trying to figure out who they are and where they fit in and they don’t need jokes and people isolating them further but again just an eye roll and he thinks I’m too paranoid and says everyone just gets along, there’s no need for all the talk.

MahShinyShoes · 19/01/2024 12:31

I bloody hate that we - rightly - try to teach our boys to recognise misogyny and homophobia & the payback they get for calling out a bigoted meathead is a fight or bullying.

See also: 'dont be such a girl'

It's all another drip into the subconscious that other groups are lesser than straight men.

It undermines the PSHE best lessons in the world, but how do you change a culture that punishes people for calling out bigotry?