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Chat GPT -Homework now pointless?

107 replies

mids2019 · 23/11/2023 06:59

My daughter was given an essay to write on reincarnation as part of religious studies homework.

All the class basically used AI write the homework leading to presumably a teacher spending hours marking the results of an algorithm. Is this a good use t of time? Can teachers identify the use of AI? Do we need a new model of teching/in term examination that will be meaningful going forward in this new AI world?

OP posts:
ChaosAndCrumbs · 14/03/2024 06:45

mids2019 · 23/11/2023 22:14

My concern is that as the technology develops we will be reliant more on exams and we were moving on a path which was less reliant on them to some extent.

Will those children that shone through coursework now be unduly penalised?

On another note is everyone absolutely sure that can detect AI easily? I suspect with a little amendment AI might be hard to spot and even if it is spotted how do you prove a child in effect has cheated?

I imagine regulations around AI will come in, just as they will for phones and the ‘iPad generation’. Technology often develops faster than law and there’s a frustrating period of issues before new regulations are put in place or regulations that exist are deemed to fit.

I think some AI could be spotted, but it’s still never going to be highly easy. If the short term solution is less home based essays those good at those (as I was) will definitely be unfairly penalised. I
don’t think that will be the long term solution though.

Oblomov24 · 14/03/2024 13:07

I won't let ds2 use it. Most teachers can spot it a mile off. At ds1 Uni 2 people have been to 'disciplinary meetings' with tutors for AI, and may fail that module. What's the point?

starfall1 · 14/03/2024 13:18

Not sure about secondary school, but lots of universities use a special software to check similarity and detect AI writing.
Once you're familiar with the ChatGPT (or similar), actually it is quite easy to spot a completely AI-written work.

mids2019 · 15/03/2024 10:16

@Oblomov24

However I think it is only going to improve and spotting AI mightn't be that trivial. Also we have the concern about falsely accusing pupils and students and there me no fool proof way to determine how much of an essay was produced by AI.

If we have standard questions at school e.g. list the causes and effect of the industrial revolution or comment on Macbeth's character then there will literally millions of sources to feed an AI algorithm and it may become extremely hard to detect AI use

OP posts:
Hopebridge · 15/03/2024 10:33

Schooldinner2 · 23/11/2023 13:39

Since starting y7 this year not 1 piece of homework with a mark or even a comment!

And most has felt like busywork.

My child is in Year 8 and they haven't had any homework marked. They do all of the work set. It's not motivational. They often say "know-one else does it".

It must be very difficult to mark so much homework but it would be nice to have the odd bit of feedback.

Like others had said AI doing the answers is only going to cause them issues. In the same way I say to my DD I'm not going to be sat in the exam with you when you do the GCSE. I support her but I can't answer questions for her that isn't going to help her progress and learn.

I must admit I didn't know this existed and I'm not surprised kids are using it. I guess some used to plagiarise essays online.

RampantIvy · 15/03/2024 11:01

Needmorelego · 24/11/2023 11:19

@mondaytosunday oh I was thinking of GCSEs. When I did mine back in the stone age GCSE was more coursework and A levels were all exam.
Has it basically swapped over?

DD took her GCSEs in 2016, and the coursework heavy ones were just ones with a practical element - art, DT, product design and drama. There was a lab practical element in the sciences, and a small amount of coursework for citizenship and history, but they were mostly exam based.

When DD did her degree she had a lot of tests and exams and several presentations. They had to present their dissertations as part of their finals.

DiDonk · 15/03/2024 15:55

Seeing this thread is reactivated DS told me the other day several students in his class got a 0 in some written work which is worth about 5% of their baccalaureate with no comment except a link to the schools plagiarism policy. Ouch!

mids2019 · 15/03/2024 16:50

Title: Unraveling the Benefits of the Industrial Revolution

The Industrial Revolution, spanning from the late 18th to the early 19th centuries, marked a pivotal turning point in human history. It propelled societies into an era of unprecedented technological innovation, economic growth, and social transformation. While the era was not devoid of challenges and controversies, its benefits remain ingrained in the fabric of modern civilization, shaping the world as we know it today.

First and foremost, the Industrial Revolution revolutionized productivity and efficiency through technological advancements. Steam engines, mechanized looms, and other inventions revolutionized manufacturing processes, leading to exponential increases in production output. This surge in productivity not only fueled economic growth but also laid the foundation for the modern industrial economy. Factories emerged as centers of mass production, harnessing the power of machinery to meet the demands of a rapidly expanding market.

Economic prosperity was one of the most profound benefits of the Industrial Revolution. As industries flourished, so did opportunities for employment and entrepreneurship. The migration of rural populations to urban centers in search of work spurred urbanization and the growth of cities. This influx of labor transformed once-sleepy towns into bustling metropolises, driving economic dynamism and innovation. The creation of new industries and markets stimulated trade and commerce, fostering a global interconnectedness that transcended geographical boundaries.

Moreover, the Industrial Revolution democratized access to goods and services, fundamentally altering societal standards of living. Mass production made consumer goods more affordable and accessible to a wider segment of the population. From textiles to household appliances, the proliferation of manufactured goods improved the quality of life for millions, enhancing comfort, convenience, and overall well-being. The rise of consumer culture reshaped social norms and values, heralding a new era of material abundance and consumerism.

In tandem with economic prosperity, the Industrial Revolution catalyzed advancements in science, medicine, and technology. The pursuit of efficiency and innovation spurred breakthroughs in fields such as chemistry, physics, and engineering. Scientific discoveries fueled technological innovation, leading to the development of groundbreaking inventions such as the telegraph, the steam locomotive, and the lightbulb. These innovations not only revolutionized industry but also transformed daily life, facilitating communication, transportation, and illumination on an unprecedented scale.

Furthermore, the Industrial Revolution precipitated significant improvements in public health and sanitation. As urban populations swelled, concerns over hygiene and disease spurred investments in public infrastructure and healthcare. Sanitary reforms, such as the implementation of sewage systems and clean water supplies, mitigated the spread of infectious diseases and improved overall public health outcomes. Medical advancements, driven by scientific inquiry and technological innovation, contributed to the conquest of once-deadly afflictions, prolonging life expectancy and enhancing quality of life.

Additionally, the Industrial Revolution fostered social progress and mobility, albeit with attendant challenges and disparities. The rise of industrial capitalism created opportunities for social mobility and upward mobility, enabling individuals to transcend the constraints of birth and class. The emergence of a burgeoning middle class empowered individuals with newfound economic agency and social influence. Education became increasingly valued as a means of social advancement, leading to the expansion of literacy and educational opportunities.

In conclusion, the Industrial Revolution represents a transformative epoch in human history, characterized by unparalleled innovation, economic expansion, and social change. Its benefits, spanning from technological innovation to economic prosperity to social progress, continue to reverberate throughout the fabric of modern civilization. While acknowledging the complexities and challenges inherent in this historical phenomenon, it is undeniable that the Industrial Revolution has left an indelible imprint on the trajectory of human progress, shaping the world in ways that continue to resonate today.

But full but this an AI piece describing the benefits of the industrial revolution. Can anyone immediately see it was written by SO and what are the give aways?

OP posts:
DiDonk · 15/03/2024 18:42

Vocab and linking words being repetitive without actually repeating, plus overuse of adjectives and adverbs I'd say. A certain breathlessness and meaninglessness overall

Hope you're not going to come on and say you wrote it yourself.

Biohive1 · 15/03/2024 18:47

Elvanseshortage · 23/11/2023 18:52

I am a university lecturer teaching undergraduate and post graduate students. This is a really big problem. No, you can't tell whether it's human or AI and there is no programme to detect it. The only reason it's obvious is because the essays don't match the lectures and certainly don't match the students' normal contributions.

However, there is very little we can do. Plagiarism is detected by turnitin, which has been around for years and works really accurately and gives us the evidence we need to penalise students. However, there is very little we can do about chatGPT. It is incredibly frustrating, even upsetting. It makes you distrust all submitted work and I imagine the students are far less interested in the lectures or seminars because they don't think they have to fully engage with it.

Our solution is to return to exams and other modes of assessment like presentations. However, this means that students are not getting the experience they need in academic writing and this will have a knock on effect with PhD students who will be lacking in research and writing skills they need to do research and write a thesis/publish generally.

and exams are only really useful to those that have very good memory compared to the real world where you can research and put together research projects, essays etc

Biohive1 · 15/03/2024 18:51

C1N1C · 23/11/2023 20:59

Absolutely agree. There's software too that even disguises AI-generated text, so I'd imagine that makes it even harder. One thing I have found that works somewhat is not to compare to documented text (Turnitin), but rather to compare to other people's texts. I've actually used ChatGTP to find unique words or similar phrases between multiple (human?) texts and obtain similarity scores. ChatGTP has a style, and even those corrected ChatGTP texts have styles.
In all honesty, I didn't have this luxury when I did my PhD, so there's an element of jealousy here, but I do pity the laziness that this will propagate in the next generation. We're outsourcing creativity.

i guess this is an upgrade from the essay mill type companies that used to exist

MrsHamlet · 15/03/2024 18:53

Essay mills still exist. I have a student wasting her money paying for essays in the hopes I won't notice. Sadly for her, I do.

She likes to switch between paying and ChatGTPing. She'd be better off doing the work.

IGotItFromAgnes · 15/03/2024 18:54

Biohive1 · 15/03/2024 18:51

i guess this is an upgrade from the essay mill type companies that used to exist

They’re still going - they keep managing to get into my university WhatsApp groups.

Quite why they think maths students would want essays written is another matter.

Biohive1 · 15/03/2024 18:56

IGotItFromAgnes · 15/03/2024 18:54

They’re still going - they keep managing to get into my university WhatsApp groups.

Quite why they think maths students would want essays written is another matter.

holy trinity, thought with chat etc they would be a bygone era

Biohive1 · 15/03/2024 18:57

MrsHamlet · 15/03/2024 18:53

Essay mills still exist. I have a student wasting her money paying for essays in the hopes I won't notice. Sadly for her, I do.

She likes to switch between paying and ChatGTPing. She'd be better off doing the work.

ive not brought any myself but is the quality of the brought ones any good ?
yes i understand if you know its a brought one, but in terms of being accurate and relevant to the essay question are they quality so to speak ?

MrsHamlet · 15/03/2024 19:04

Biohive1 · 15/03/2024 18:57

ive not brought any myself but is the quality of the brought ones any good ?
yes i understand if you know its a brought one, but in terms of being accurate and relevant to the essay question are they quality so to speak ?

Superficially they're okay: if you didn't know what students should be writing, it might pass as acceptable.

But they tend to make very basic errors and fail to meet the criteria.

mids2019 · 16/03/2024 06:28

@DiDonk

I see what you mean......do you have experience of being fielded a lot of AI essays?

I suppose it's the difficulty of accusing a student of cheating while having a very good suspicion AI is involved not having concrete evidence.

OP posts:
sashh · 16/03/2024 07:37

I know this is a bit of a zombie but the 'three word test' works. You take a printed copy of the essay (you could actually do it online) and tipex every third word.

If the student has written the essay they can fill in the blanks easily and accurately.

Also the students who cheat are often not that bright about it. I once marked an essay about 'health surveillance' so things like occupational health, radiographers wearing film badges that sort of thing.

What was handed in was basically an advert for a shop in London that sold mini cameras and voice recorders.

BigBadaBoom · 16/03/2024 07:56

The Industrial Revolution piece reads like it was produced by the Industrial Revolution's marketing department :D

WeeMadArthur1 · 16/03/2024 08:15

mids2019 · 15/03/2024 16:50

Title: Unraveling the Benefits of the Industrial Revolution

The Industrial Revolution, spanning from the late 18th to the early 19th centuries, marked a pivotal turning point in human history. It propelled societies into an era of unprecedented technological innovation, economic growth, and social transformation. While the era was not devoid of challenges and controversies, its benefits remain ingrained in the fabric of modern civilization, shaping the world as we know it today.

First and foremost, the Industrial Revolution revolutionized productivity and efficiency through technological advancements. Steam engines, mechanized looms, and other inventions revolutionized manufacturing processes, leading to exponential increases in production output. This surge in productivity not only fueled economic growth but also laid the foundation for the modern industrial economy. Factories emerged as centers of mass production, harnessing the power of machinery to meet the demands of a rapidly expanding market.

Economic prosperity was one of the most profound benefits of the Industrial Revolution. As industries flourished, so did opportunities for employment and entrepreneurship. The migration of rural populations to urban centers in search of work spurred urbanization and the growth of cities. This influx of labor transformed once-sleepy towns into bustling metropolises, driving economic dynamism and innovation. The creation of new industries and markets stimulated trade and commerce, fostering a global interconnectedness that transcended geographical boundaries.

Moreover, the Industrial Revolution democratized access to goods and services, fundamentally altering societal standards of living. Mass production made consumer goods more affordable and accessible to a wider segment of the population. From textiles to household appliances, the proliferation of manufactured goods improved the quality of life for millions, enhancing comfort, convenience, and overall well-being. The rise of consumer culture reshaped social norms and values, heralding a new era of material abundance and consumerism.

In tandem with economic prosperity, the Industrial Revolution catalyzed advancements in science, medicine, and technology. The pursuit of efficiency and innovation spurred breakthroughs in fields such as chemistry, physics, and engineering. Scientific discoveries fueled technological innovation, leading to the development of groundbreaking inventions such as the telegraph, the steam locomotive, and the lightbulb. These innovations not only revolutionized industry but also transformed daily life, facilitating communication, transportation, and illumination on an unprecedented scale.

Furthermore, the Industrial Revolution precipitated significant improvements in public health and sanitation. As urban populations swelled, concerns over hygiene and disease spurred investments in public infrastructure and healthcare. Sanitary reforms, such as the implementation of sewage systems and clean water supplies, mitigated the spread of infectious diseases and improved overall public health outcomes. Medical advancements, driven by scientific inquiry and technological innovation, contributed to the conquest of once-deadly afflictions, prolonging life expectancy and enhancing quality of life.

Additionally, the Industrial Revolution fostered social progress and mobility, albeit with attendant challenges and disparities. The rise of industrial capitalism created opportunities for social mobility and upward mobility, enabling individuals to transcend the constraints of birth and class. The emergence of a burgeoning middle class empowered individuals with newfound economic agency and social influence. Education became increasingly valued as a means of social advancement, leading to the expansion of literacy and educational opportunities.

In conclusion, the Industrial Revolution represents a transformative epoch in human history, characterized by unparalleled innovation, economic expansion, and social change. Its benefits, spanning from technological innovation to economic prosperity to social progress, continue to reverberate throughout the fabric of modern civilization. While acknowledging the complexities and challenges inherent in this historical phenomenon, it is undeniable that the Industrial Revolution has left an indelible imprint on the trajectory of human progress, shaping the world in ways that continue to resonate today.

But full but this an AI piece describing the benefits of the industrial revolution. Can anyone immediately see it was written by SO and what are the give aways?

The obvious giveaway with this one is that every paragraph is almost exactly the same length.

mids2019 · 16/03/2024 08:21

Your right!

OP posts:
AmaryllisChorus · 16/03/2024 08:27

Elvanseshortage · 23/11/2023 18:52

I am a university lecturer teaching undergraduate and post graduate students. This is a really big problem. No, you can't tell whether it's human or AI and there is no programme to detect it. The only reason it's obvious is because the essays don't match the lectures and certainly don't match the students' normal contributions.

However, there is very little we can do. Plagiarism is detected by turnitin, which has been around for years and works really accurately and gives us the evidence we need to penalise students. However, there is very little we can do about chatGPT. It is incredibly frustrating, even upsetting. It makes you distrust all submitted work and I imagine the students are far less interested in the lectures or seminars because they don't think they have to fully engage with it.

Our solution is to return to exams and other modes of assessment like presentations. However, this means that students are not getting the experience they need in academic writing and this will have a knock on effect with PhD students who will be lacking in research and writing skills they need to do research and write a thesis/publish generally.

Can you really not tell? Do you not get a sense of how an individual student's mind works - how they tend to approach a problem intellectually, what language they tend to use, what sites or reference tools they tend to depend on? Do the essays not seem uniform in shape and style if they are ChatGP generated.

I just marked 77 pieces of work and have singled out 5 as ChatGPT generated. I may have missed some, but these 5 were so obvious. Even the layout was a giveaway.

Earwiggoearwiggoearwiggo · 16/03/2024 08:35

mids2019 · 23/11/2023 20:04

Ok so chatGPT answer in a few paragraphs on Juliet from R and J. I thought it made some sense and an essay can written in the style of a 10 year old say. AI is going to improve exponentially so I think it is a good time to start the conversation in schools and possibly have the D of E take a lead

Juliet, in William Shakespeare's "Romeo and Juliet," is a complex and multifaceted character, embodying both the innocence of youth and the passion of true love. At the start of the play, Juliet is portrayed as a dutiful daughter, obedient to her parents' wishes. However, as the narrative unfolds, her character undergoes a profound transformation.

Juliet's defining characteristic is her intense and impulsive nature. Her love for Romeo is instantaneous and all-consuming, defying the longstanding feud between their families. This fervent commitment is evident in her famous line, "My only love sprung from my only hate!" Her willingness to risk everything for love underscores the play's central theme of the power of love in the face of adversity.

Despite her youth, Juliet displays remarkable maturity in navigating the complexities of her predicament. She is not merely a passive figure swept away by fate; rather, she takes decisive actions to shape her own destiny. Her decision to take a potion to feign death, although risky, reflects her courage and resourcefulness.

Juliet's tragic end is a poignant reminder of the destructive consequences of the feuding Montague and Capulet families. Her character is a timeless symbol of the potency of young love and the high stakes that can accompany it. Through Juliet, Shakespeare explores the profound impact of societal expectations and familial discord on the individual, making her a memorable and enduring figure in the realm of tragic literature.

If one of my Year 7s handed this in, I'd be asking them in front of the whole class to explain what poignant, multifaceted and predicament mean. Then I'd be giving them a detention.

Oh wait, this is exactly what I have done to my pupils when they've handed in this stuff. 🤷‍♀️

Pupils have been given so many bloody assemblies etc about this, and they still use it. You're right, what is happening is homework is moving away from writing and towards research or revising something that will be used in the next lesson. But it means you have to do a lot more timed writing in lessons, which is a waste of class time.

DiscoBeat · 16/03/2024 08:44

My son tried chat GPT a few times. He edited afterwards to add some of his own style/usual words here and there but he did come to his senses and knew it wasn't helping him in the long run. It's a problem!

RampantIvy · 16/03/2024 09:10

AmaryllisChorus · 16/03/2024 08:27

Can you really not tell? Do you not get a sense of how an individual student's mind works - how they tend to approach a problem intellectually, what language they tend to use, what sites or reference tools they tend to depend on? Do the essays not seem uniform in shape and style if they are ChatGP generated.

I just marked 77 pieces of work and have singled out 5 as ChatGPT generated. I may have missed some, but these 5 were so obvious. Even the layout was a giveaway.

It depends on the size of the cohort. When DD was a student in a cohort of over 300 the students and teaching staff didn't build up any kind of rapport. They just didn't get to know each other. She did a STEM degree with many different topics so she only had the same lecturer a handful of times before the next topic.

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