Odd question I know English specific exceptional reader year 11:kindly knowing answers only please...

[StrangeBrewlook]

Dd is an exceptional reader.. She always has been since reading clicked.

This is very outing hence name change for this: age 15 she's read war and peace peace, balzac, Anna kareina, tess etc.

Her other subject grades are hitting 9 and yet for English she's 7.

I've looked at some point recent essays and she's got one point ao3... One ao2 and one ao1.

Leaving her 2 marks off an 8.

Yes of course I will speak to her teacher but I'm also wondering if i should contact anyone else within the school to alert them to this what I would say is exceptional reading..

Something with the gcse English is not clicking. Her vocabs and spelling is always spot on.

Unfortunately she hates it and doesn't want to pursue it at a level but what a waste!

What should I do.

@WrongSwanson then your peer group have skewed your standards.
It's not common for a 15 year old to read war and peace and all those other books.

Yes, after all the advice I agree its actually very little to do with the reading re the exam and all about it technique etc.

It's still a shame that a brilliant reader is put off English but at least she will carry that passion with her.

I don't know , we were hardly a bunch of child geniuses, just ordinarily bright children who liked reading. I don't think teens shout it from the rooftops but a lot of brighter teens do read decent literature.

But you are right to prioritise nurturing her love of reading above a GCSE grade or two. In the long run it's such a wonderful gift to be well read. I still believe I got as much of my education from reading widely as I did from lessons at school.

Being a good reader has nothing to do with exam success. I devoured books and was reading Hardy, Bronte and various other classics etc in my early teens, alongside lighter reading. I even attempted Camus in original language (took me ages!). I wasn’t an “exceptional” reader, just above average for the times, pre the smartphone era.

However I detested English Lit, I hated how it ruined the reading experience for me, every sentence became an analysis instead of immersing myself in the story, which to me is the whole point of reading for pleasure. I suspect it’s the same for a lot of avid readers.

Don’t force your DD to do A level English, her A level choices need to be hers, DC who end up doing their parents’ choices never do as well as they could have done left to their own devices. To get her over the line for English Lit she can have tutoring for exam technique. My DD got an excellent grade despite reading very little, because she clicked on the technique required. Then leave English Lit there and don’t force it beyond GCSE.

This is what I am trying to (gently) point out. It isn't, it is just a matter of personal taste and hobbies, a generation or two ago, before x box, it was normal, and for all abilities, to read books of this length and weight, if you wanted to and enjoyed it

I think you may be overestimating her abilities, and confusing a hobby (which is lovely) with educational achievement, but it isnt equivalent

She presumably read War and Peace for entertainment, same as so many young primary children read Lord of the Rings, or my generation read Gone with the Wind, or Anna Karenina - its fun, you are not doing work on it.

You can do a lot of work on a batman comic, but reading one and enjoying it does not mean you are capable of answering essay questions on it - same with War and Peace. Which is not particularly weighty in itself, just long. It is similar to Dickins, in that it was written contemporarily, and intended to be accessible and entertaining, not any sort of intelligence test

I was a bit like this. Have a chat with her English teacher. It could be that she’s not hitting the “basic” stuff and is going straight to degree-level analysis, which is affecting the marks she’s able to be given.

That said, it is a wonderful, enriching, hobby. One that opens your mind to different worlds and lives and ideas.

A 7 is an A
Have we lost sight of this?

Being a capable reader doesn't able her a capable essay writer. Exam technique is what you're looking for. Yes speak to the teacher

I would suggest looking at past papers and the mark schemes freely available on the Internet

Look at the criteria exactly.

I was an avid reader at your daughter's age and had read a wide range of classic texts including similar ones to your DD. I did it primarily for enjoyment and didn't think too deeply about what I'd read.

My 17 year old DD is currently studying English Lang and English Lit A Levels and has applied to university to study English Lit. She is not as widely read as I was at the same age, however her understanding of the texts that she has read is far superior to mine at the same age and she also develops her reading by reading multiple texts from the same author, or from similar authors on related themes. She also reads up on historical contexts relating to what she reads to giver her a broader understanding.

I was a reader; my DD is an English student. They are not the same thing.

(I took maths and science A Levels despite my love of reading - don't force your daughter to do what she doesn't want to do; she should study what she enjoys).

My dc was the same. For gcse you have to just write the approved answers and essays. Anything more creative isn't acceptable. If she can do that she will be fine.

absolutely!

The best way to revise for the tests is to get hold of past papers and the model answers and really try and understand the marking scheme and what they are looking for in their model answers.

This

My dp is a huge reader and always has been since he was a teenager. Couldn't write an essay if his life depended on it. Has a PhD in Physics.

I mean this kindly but your daughter isn't owed a 9, whether she's a good reader or not.

My younger son is more naturally academic than his brother and I'd have put money on him getting better grades. In reality, my older son got all 9s because he worked very hard, did extra exam answers which his teacher marked and focused on his exam technique.

His younger brother didn't and got two 8s (one of which was in English as he got 50% on the persuasive writing). Still an excellent score but he was disappointed (he goes to a seriously competitive school). He's full of ideas but some are so random and obscure that they don't hang together, whereas my other son put down obvious points in a structured way.

I helped a bit with his English towards the end - the examiner reports are a really good resource (beyond the mark schemes) and I thought the Mr Bruff YouTube videos were good. The other thing our teachers do is to circulate the exam answers set for homework which were marked as a 9 so they can see what they're aiming for.

But the best advice I can give is to ignore the fact she's a good reader as it's not relevant to performing at the top level for GCSE English. Provided you're an adequate reader, that's enough and the rest is on your writing skills.

Yy to @redskyanight's post - I am similar. I was a great reader in my teens, read the Brontes aged 14-15, read Anna Karenina and most Hardy well before I left school. It didn't mean I was at all exceptional - just I liked reading.

I took three language A levels, not English, and maybe that's one reason I still love to read haha. My DD OTOH, while also a big reader, is also amazing at the necessary analysis - did v well at GCSE and then did A level Eng lit and a degree in it too - analysing the meaning of a single word in a text that shows xyz. Blew my mind tbh. It's not the same as reading widely.

I agree tho that reading is a great hobby so do continue to nurture it. Just be wary of the viewpoint that the reading she does makes her very exceptional in some way. You changed your name bc you thought her reading would be so unusual that it would identify her - it really isn't. And that's fine. In fact it's good that so many of our young people are keen readers. Btw I do think that my extensive reading had helped me in my current working role, which is very words-based.

Lots of great advice on here about how to improve her Eng lit grades as well.

OP, there are no grade boundaries until students complete actual exams and these can vary wildly form year to year. Whoever has said she is 'one mark off an 8' is not being accurate or especially helpful.

I, too, am confused by your mention of tiers and combined Lang Lit. You seems quite confused about the qualification and need to clarify this with the school. There are no tiers in English or Lit GCSE

GCSE English does have a habit of putting students off - that is a legacy of political interference I'm afraid. I think her reading material is exceptional - I hope she keeps it up. I taught an exceptional girl recently who got a 9 for Lit and a 6 for Language. Sometimes, outcomes make no sense.

It is also possible her English teacher is a slightly stingy marker and /or the history teachers are very generous!

My DS2 is in year 10 and is complaining about his English teacher, I suspect because she's marking very hard - apparently she's also an examiner. I think tough marking with detail on where you got the marks or didn't, that you can compared with exam scheme info, is better at your DD's stage than gushing over an essay. The question is not, why isn't she getting a 9 now, but suggestions.

And as others have said, you can study other subjects and enjoy reading 19th century literature (and other books). But voracious reading doesn't necessarily equal top grades, and reluctant readers can do really well too.

I've also read most of hardy and the brontes, etc etc.

War and peace is in a league of it's own because it's showing tenacity, ability to remember and follow through story with many boring details and war stuff.

It's not comparable to jude the obscure.

As far as can see I didn't ask for a debate on whether reading was war and peace is the exception for children of dd age.

It obviously is.

No I agree OP, you didn't ask for a debate. And I also agree War and Peace is not the same book as Jude the Obscure. But you did lead on it as tho reading War and Peace were so very unusual and amazing that a) your child was the only one and b) they thus deserved a grade 9.

Neither is true, that's all. I am sure your DD could achieve a grade 9 if she wanted to put in the work, but reading War and Peace is neither necessary (luckily!) not especially helpful.

As many have pointed out, she needs to follow the mark scheme to see where she is losing marks, and talk to her teacher about how she can improve. Also agree with Mr Salles suggestion and careful attention to AOs.

It's easy to be confused about exams, especially English IMO (and you do seem to be a bit confused). I have had students show me, baffled, three pages of writing for which they got very few marks - the answers in the exam need to be targeted at what will gain the marks. The information is out there tho!

Best of luck to your DD.

I read war and peace and all the hardcore classics at that age! I was a prolific and intense reader. I got a B in my English. Unexceptional but did fine for an above average learner. I’m not saying this to knock your Dd- it’s an unusual choice for a teen these days. No disputing that at all. And reading will set her in good stead. It’s just about accessing the marking scheme and getting switched into that.

Past papers and exam technique is the way to get those high level marks.

Is it the language or lit area or city that’s a 7?

what I am trying to explain, is that it isn't. It is something you do if you want to, as a hobby, it takes no more tenacity and ability to remember than Harry Potter, or Minecraft. Maybe fewer people want to do this particular, but there is nothing exceptional in spending time on an easy hobby that you enjoy. What I am trying to explain to you is that this is not a demonstration of ability in English. Its just a fun thing for her that she likes. If she has friends reading it, then it is social, if she is spending daylight hours on a hobby that is totally isolating, maybe an indication of something else going on, but in itself not an indication of exceptional abilities.

@Catsfrontbum

It's climbing a mountain in reading terms.

I'm definitely getting however like pp have said its not about reading it's about answering the questions to a prescribed formula.

@secondfavouritesocks

I shouldn't reply to you really but I am finding your posts extremely patronising.

Please save yourself effort of posting, it's ridiculous.

I really don't need you to tell me gently or otherwise about dd reading.

She's 15 not 5. Surely most teens of that age who love reading and are good at English can cope with complex texts? I don't think reading capability really advances much beyond the age of 15/16, probably only knowledge of the world and emotional maturity.

I think lots of us on here have also read War and Peace and are familiar with its plotlines, themes and length.

We're trying to explain it's not exceptional to be reading it at 15 if you are an avid reader.

In fact I expect it's a pretty obvious choice for a teen who loves reading the classics.

I was reading Steinbeck (Grapes of Wrath), Dickens, Austen etc at 12 ( I definitely read Grapes of Wrath in year 7/8- middle school - as my English teacher hadn't heard of it ) and Tolstoy, Flaubert, Voltaire etc by 15/16... Once you've worked through the English classics it's a logic step...

Yes it's a sign she's bright and loves reading but I think it would be sensible to just celebrate that she has such an excellent hobby rather than thinking it will translate into any particular grade in English Lit.