Odd question I know English specific exceptional reader year 11:kindly knowing answers only please...

[StrangeBrewlook]

Dd is an exceptional reader.. She always has been since reading clicked.

This is very outing hence name change for this: age 15 she's read war and peace peace, balzac, Anna kareina, tess etc.

Her other subject grades are hitting 9 and yet for English she's 7.

I've looked at some point recent essays and she's got one point ao3... One ao2 and one ao1.

Leaving her 2 marks off an 8.

Yes of course I will speak to her teacher but I'm also wondering if i should contact anyone else within the school to alert them to this what I would say is exceptional reading..

Something with the gcse English is not clicking. Her vocabs and spelling is always spot on.

Unfortunately she hates it and doesn't want to pursue it at a level but what a waste!

What should I do.

Just speak to the teacher. I’m not sure who else you would need to alert at this point without knowing what her teacher says - they may have a very clear idea of where she is dropping marks, or they might not, but they will be the best place to start.

Reading is important in English, but it is only one skill. Much like being a very skilled footballer doesn’t automatically mean you’ll walk PE, or being very good at painting meaning you’ll naturally get full marks in Art. You need to demonstrate the range of skills they are looking for, in the way they’re looking for them.

Hi @StrangeBrewlook I agree with others, the GCSE English exam 9(lit or lang) is about exam technique and understanding of themes rather than being a big reader.

It's great that she is reading the classics (though it's not unheard of so I wouldn't alert ayone tbh). But doing that won;t get her a great grade at GCSE.

Yes for sure she has to read the set texts and I a sure she has done so. And in fact wider reading of the same genre or from the same era may help - so for J&H she could read Dorian Gray and Sherlock Holmes to give some timely context. But that's super high level.

As everyone else says, Eng is about technique and knowing what to do. Approach her English teacher and ask how she can improve. They must know she is able and keen.

Is she getting a 7 in lit or lang or both? That's a key question you've not answered.

IMHO Eng lang is even more prescriptive than Eng lit - it's vital to answer using the terms the exam is looking for so she needs to learn what they are.

@clary she has read Dorian grey and we watched sherlock...

I'm wondering if this is what is missing, making that connection? Bridging that gap? Ie between Dorian and dr J?

Not answering because I'm not sure we only seem to get one quiche is lit

@watcherintherye I consider an O Level C to be excellent. I also consider a GCSE 4 to be excellent if the child has worked well and achieved the best result for them. Are you and your children straight A / 9 students? I certainly wasn’t, but have a good degree and a successful career 🤷‍♀️

ARe you saying your DD is not taking Eng lang? That't pretty unlikely tbh.

No, the reason she is getting 7 not 9 is not bc she is not linking Dorian Gray and J&H; there are marks for context (where most DC wheel out some stuff about poor people and no NHS for Chr Carol) so she could introduce something there if she had it to hand - ie about Gothic literature - but there is absolutely no requirement to bring in those books to gain a 9. She is not meeting the mark scheme somewhere else and her teacher could tell you (and her) where.

My son ”studied” Jeckyl & Hyde, Macbeth and Lord of the Flies. These books work well together because they share similar themes that can easily relate to modern times. Unfortunately, the curriculum's limitations led to him announcing hell never read a book again, despite achieving a 9.

This is not a brag; it's quite the opposite. He memorised quotes from the books and poetry and got lucky with the questions asked. His friend consistently put in more effort, but the questions didn't favour him and he got a 6. There is a lot of luck involved. This is an entirely new thread in itself!

You seem very keen for her to do A-level. It sounds as if she's good at lots of other things too, so why push her into something she's less keen on? She can still enjoy reading for pleasure.

DD was an early reader, has excellent spelling and grammar skills, and has read some demanding books (eg Anna Karenina), but that didn't mean English was for her.

We did get a tutor, which helped, and got DD up a couple of grades (but still below the target set from her KS2 scores). Her other subjects were all better.

@StrangeBrewlook I think she would love English a level even with someone aspects she doesn't like.

I'm not sure how to help her see this though. The problem is she's getting 9s for other subjects so 7 is lower and she thinks it's not a strong subject.

This is very much about you and what you want your daughter to study. Does she have any idea what she wants to study at uni or do as a job? Humanities A levels involve a heavy emphasis on essays, demonstrating strong research, comprehension and composition skills, so don’t write these off.

My guess is less reading, more exam strategy would be what makes the difference.

I have a severely dyslexic DD who to my knowledge has never read a whole novel and who didn't learn to read until Y3. Somehow, she's on track for top grades in English - and seems to specialise in working out how to maximise her point score for minimum effort... probably via TikTok videos.

Being good at reading complex texts doesn’t necessarily translate immediately to being good at analysing them. It’s a skill you have to learn.

Yep. And being a decent writer!

It's fine to just love reading widely and voraciously. i would tread carefully to avoid putting her off, as reading is such a wonderful hobby in it's own right. I was reading those types of books at that age too. I know it's not the norm but I am not sure it is particularly exceptional either. (but maybe that is just because it is normal to me). I'm glad I kept reading as a hobby rather than feeling I had to do an a level in it.

That said, my step daughter jumped several grades thanks to her tutor, so if your daughter is keen that could be worth exploring

I would speak to the teacher and consider a tutor. Clearly something in her analysis, argument structure or writing style is letting her down here compared to her potential given she can write good essays in other subjects. Is the difference the topics- eg subjective assessments of emotions and morals vs factual analyses? (I was the same kind of reading level as your daughter, and did very well, but while highly complementary they aren’t the same skills at all.)

Is your DD in year 11 now? Has she done mock papers and does she have more coming? My DS didn't have y10 mocks but had two rounds in year 11.

This year I borrowed a textbook for a new module in my 2nd child, DS2's History GCSE from the library and looking at it, there are examples of answers which would get some of the marks available, probably enough to get a good pass, and ones which get most or all of the marks available to reach those top grades. There are then explanations of the difference, and it's not necessarily that the full marks answers are necessarily longer, beautifully written etc, it's that they make connections between points better and elaborate bringing in knowledge from their studies.

7 is a good grade and 2 marks off an 8 suggests that would be equivalent to an A - it also suggests she has potential to do even better. Also, her English Lit teacher may be marking as hard as possible, but is clearly marking against the scheme - if they are indicating point A0 etc you can find the marking scheme and see what she would need to add to get, say, 4/4 marks instead of 2/3. This really doesn't mean knowing everything, it means demonstrating an understanding of the questions asked and a technique, and balancing her time between questions in the exam according to available marks.

Does she want to study other subjects which involve a lot of reading or is she not sure? Also, enjoying reading for pleasure and studying literature are different things, and another subject might suit her better. In other essay subjects & Computer Science, my DS1 improved from getting 5/6 at this point in year 11 to getting 7s and 8s at GCSE (6 for Eng Lit), whereas he was already on course for better grades in Maths & Triple Science.

But really, at this point 2 marks off an 8 for your DD with some months to practice and a teacher whose marking indicates how she's applying the mark scheme sounds pretty good.

I confess I don't know what all those grades mean, or what exactly the modern syllabus includes, as I took my 'O' levels in 1976! At the time they were split into English Literature and English Language.
I could have been classed as an exceptional reader, but I failed English Literature abysmally. I got an excellent grade in English Language. I enjoyed reading, I had excellent understanding of what I read, but I utterly loathed having to dissect what I read and to write about it. Maybe it is the same for your DD?

@Ellishyde do you mean at your school you only need 48? As all schools are different.

OP, as others have said, let your DD do what she wants. I would agree with PPs, that she should be doing A levels that are a) her choice b) which she excels at c) sets her up for Uni.

does she even need A level English for what she has chosen to do at Uni? Why are you so fixated on this?

What was in your daughter’s feedback, other than grades?

If you let us know what the teacher said, we can help you interpret it.

OP I loved reading and English and everyone told me it was my subject and I went on to study it at university. Interestingly, English lit was the only exam I got a in at gcse (all others were a star) and b in at a level (all others were a). I think it’s because it’s the only subject where I really wanted to learn, not just study to pass the exam.

anyway, the English degree was a bore and put me and most of my cohort off reading for pleasure. Took us about 20 years to return to the kind of joy your daughter finds in reading right now.

I think that if you have a genuine love for something the strictures of exam boards etc can be detrimental to that feeling and experience. My advice would be to let your dd nurture her lifetime love of reading but pursue other subjects academically.

A 7 without a tutor is good. See what she does with a tutor. I would say she likes other subjects more. Being a reader just means she enjoys the books. Not that she likes to pick them apart to get a 9.

I loved reading, was reading all the classics as a teen. I grew up around authors, I loved writing. My goal was to be a writer.

I loathed English. I should have done well. I loathed the analysis. I loathed the discussions about why the author chose one word over another. It ruined books for me. All pretentious nonsense. I just wanted to enjoy the worlds and cultures I was reading, not analyse them to death. I did well, but I hated it.

Don't force it. There are many great books I despise because of my English classes, even when I felt I had good teachers.

OP I think you need to stop fixating on this. She is clearly doing amazingly well in her schooling. If she doesn't enjoy English chances are it is because she is such a great reader - so enjoys getting lost in the story and the characters but she doesn't want to then have to pull it apart and discuss why the author used that specific word at that point etc.

Let her be.

I'm not forcing anything. Im gathering info and looking into it.

As ever done wondeful helpful responses, thank you all.

Just another post to say that prolific reading doesn’t equal being good at English . My son is the same but his English prediction is 6 . I know that his school will want the best grade from him that’s possible ( Grammar) so I’m not concerned . He works hard and has been in charge of his own destiny for some time academically because I know that he wants to succeed and is naturally very clever . Vast majority of his other predictions are higher.

@StrangeBrewlook The AOs you have listed - are they for GCSE English Literature or English Language? You have mentioned that she’s an avid reader which is definitely half of the work done, particularly for English literature, but not enough alone to obtain higher than a 7. It’s all about how well you can analyse language and structure as well as how well you can structure an essay.

It’s likely that her level of analysis isn’t yet pushing her upwards from a 7. For English Language, she’ll need to go into detail about how both language and structure impact the overall meaning of the text as well as how they will influence the reader (this is AO2). For example, for a non-fiction text (paper 2), she’ll need to explain in detail how each writer presents their own thoughts and opinions whilst influencing the reader to agree with their perspective, thinking about persuasive devices.

For higher levels, she’ll need to master the art of writing ‘a lot about a little’. Select a small, powerful quote from the texts to analyse and write in great depth about what it shows about the writers’ perspective as well as the impact this will have on reader - how does it influence them?