Triple science or combined science

[chickensandbees]

Does anyone have any advice on whether it is better to do Triple Science or combined science. DD is in Y10 and hasn't been given the option yet (and may not be given the option) but I wanted advice in case she is given the choice. A parent told me the school usually give the option of doing Triple Science or Combined science to those that have the ability.

DD is predicted a 7 at the moment in science, she doesn't seem to think she is very good at science, but she enjoys Biology and would like to be a nurse. She has talked about doing Biology at A Level.

If she was given the option would it be better to do triple science if she can, especially if she wants to do Biology at A Level? Or as she is only predicted a 7 would it be better to focus on Combined science?

Triple Science is not necessary for university courses like Medicine, Dentistry, Pharmacy or Veterinary Medicine. All my kids did Combined Science and then went on to do Medicine. The thinking at their school was that this freed them up to do an extra language or arts subject which would broaden their CV for their uni applications. It obviously worked as they all had a range of uni offers.

At GCSE now, students for either Triple or Combined Science study all 3 sciences and take exams in all 3, but Combined Science entrance do shorter exam papers and less depth and come out with two GCSEs. So either way, they learn Chemistry, Biology and Physics.

I don't know how other schools do it but my kids' school doesn't seem to separate out the three science subjects in lessons, though when they get on to practice questions and papers the difference must be clearer. DS1 got 9s and is now doing Physics at A level (other subjects Maths - his favourite/strongest I think - and Philosophy, which is a new subject for him though he may have come across some of the content in Religious Studies (and even Sociology) at GCSE.

How do you do that? Go back to all the already completed units and add all the triple content in during year 11? Teach them all all the triple content then bump some of them down if they are not coping?

@elkiedee oh yes for sure. It was the same back when I was at school too. But you get more breadth and depth doing 3, and if you're picking a science for A level and beyond, it makes sense. You wouldn't go in for any other A level having not done the full GCSE content for it.

Can I ask a question, OP? If your DD only wants to do one science at A level, what was the thinking behind doing all three at GCSE? The reason I'm asking is that my DD is choosing GCSE options this year and only wants to do one, which she thinks she may want to do at A level.

We have a spiral curriculum so don't teach whole modules in one go. For example, in year 9 they will learn about enzymes. In year 10 we review enzymes and look at the digestive system, and then in year 11, if they are a single science group, we will look at the induced fit model for enzymes. It is works really well as students are constantly revising previous years content rather than compelting a module and potentially not going back to it for two years! And to answer your other question, no triple content is taught in year 9 or 10 so you wouldn't need to bump them down.

Apologies for the poor English!! Very rushed comment 🙈

They didn't have science as options, everyone has to do all the science subjects at GCSE along with Maths, English and RE. Options were only the humanities, language, arts etc.

that does sound interesting, but I dont really see how you get ALL the triple content into year 11. And what do the others do when you are doing it?

Thanks @Happytimes123456 that sounds exactly what my DDs school does.

My son was asked to do triple science as he was in top set, I don't think everyone gets the option. He finds the extra workload manageable and is predicted high grades in all 3. If your daughter is offered it and feels capable then I'd say go for it. I'm surprised they wait till year 11 to start triple science though, I've never heard of that until this thread!

I don’t think there’s ever an option these days to drop any of the sciences entirely at GCSE - you either cover them all in lots of depth in triple science, or all of them in slightly less depth in combined science. You can’t generally just pick biology and chemistry but drop physics, for example.

My eldest did triple, it was pretty much expected of everyone in that set. I regret it. His grades were fine but in hindsight would likely have been better doing double and two better GCSEs would probably have been better than a third average one.

Does depend on the child and whether they are likely to put in the hours and want to continue to pursue science seriously though.

That's the reason why some schools, like my DC, have it timetabled that everyone has the same number of science classes. The top sets are triple and the bottom sets combined. It's like another PP says, the combined classes are filled with kids who don't pay attention and mess around. You don't want to be in that class if you want to learn. Looking at the GCSE results last year, it's 50/50 triple and combined science. It's a non selective school, so not like a grammar where even the bottom set is academic.

OP. Ignore posters saying it will leave time for an extra option, as your DD is already in y10 and has chosen options.

My reading of the revision guides / specs is there isn't really much/any extra depth for triple, only extra breadth. ie Extra topics at the same level of difficulty as for combined. (My experience comes from DD dropping combined to do just Biology for rather complicated reasons). I am happy to defer to science teachers on this though!

Note that the new combined science (number grades) covers more than the old 'double science' (letter grades) and thus is a better preparation for A level than the old style GCSEs.

Former science teacher here, op. With a double science GCSE.

A good grade in double science is fine for A-level biology, less so for chemistry or physics as they really do need the extra groundwork covered in the final 1/3 of each GCSE.

If she's not confident with science, though, doing triple might make her feel immediately like she's out of her depth. On the other hand, covering everything in so much depth might build her confidence and given the extra lessons she'll have, she will finish school with a better understanding of science just because she's done more of it. However it will be a greater workload, so she needs to weigh that up, for example she probably won't have time to do more than one very coursework/legwork heavy optional GCSE such as drama, dance or art which require a lot of work in your own time.

A good grade in GCSE biology and poorer grades in chemistry or physics and she will still be able to do the A-level biology (at most sixth forms/colleges, anyway, but do check individual requirements with wherever she's looking to go), but poor grades in double science don't differentiate between the aspects of science she was better/worse at so it will be harder to get onto a science A-level at that point.

Ah, I see, thanks for answering that. At DD's school they only have to do one science as a compulsory subject.

At DD's school you can, you only have to take one science as a compulsory subject, that's why I was getting a bit confused!

@SisterMichaelsHabit She's already in y10, so has started options subjects already and it doesn't appear she will have 'extra lessons' just cover more content in the allotted time.

Usually you re-jig the classes so you have a triple class (set 1 usually) and double classes, and the double classes spend more time on the things they need to cover from the double curriculum while the triple class covers the extra 1/3 of each GCSE and usually have 1-2 extra timetabled periods.

Some schools treat GCSE Triple as another option and take the 3-6 lessons usually ringfenced for an optional GCSE and put science in there to give the extra time to cover it all.

Here's a typical example:

Double science:
Y10: Biology B1, Chemistry C1, Physics P1 Covered in 5-10 lessons a week (depending on whether it's a school that does double periods or singles).
Y11: Biology B2, Chemistry C2, Physics P2 Covered in 5-10 lessons a week

Triple science:
Y10: B1 C1 P1 Covered in 8-16 lessons a week, in the extra time they will probably start on some B2, C2, P2 towards the end of Y10, which is still content for double science.
Y11: B2 C2 P2 (finishing off), B3 C3 P3.

The kids in the top set work faster and grasp the concepts more easily so can cover more content in less time than the ones in the lower sets. Their behaviour for learning is also usually better (usually! Not always) so they waste less time messing around and chatting.

However as you can see it is usually a bit of a squeeze to do it all.

You've misunderstood. I've given a worked example under your last post, but just to clarify, even if she doesn't have extra timetabled hours on her timetable, she will have to have additional taught lessons (even if these are within the same allocated timetable class time as everyone else's science lessons in the other sets) taught by a teacher who has written a lesson plan with allocated work for those modules otherwise it is not physically possible to do triple science. You cannot pass three GCSEs adequately after only covering 2/3 of the content.

We do a lot of gymnastics to make it fit when we don't get additional hours on the timetable and the students are taught the lessons they need to learn the content.

@SisterMichaelsHabit Apologies. She will of course have extra content taught.

If she is interested, can keep up, doesn't need those lesson periods to recap / increase understanding of the combined syllabus, and is able to revise and apply all the content then triple will be beneficial.

The OP and her DD will have to decide as and when she is offered triple, whether or not this is the case.

I was originally going to say that for me it would depend a lot on whether doing double would open up options for another subject which she would prefer/might do better in but having read the thread I see that's not relevant.
Of course you'd need a crystal ball to really know, but surely her teachers will be best placed to predict grades and advise? If she is likely to cope a lot better with double and hence get 2 good grades whereas triple may result in 3 mediocre ones then I would definitely stick with double. More or less everyone at my DC's school does triple, but the other school in the area only offers double and there doesn't seem to be any massive difference in their A level results or leavers' destinations so I doubt it matters greatly. I guess it might be a bit of an issue if moving for A levels from a school that does double to one where the rest of the class has done triple as the teachers may have slightly different expectations of existing knowledge, but I am sure that can be overcome. In the great scheme of things, whilst it is natural to worry about these things, double vs triple science at GCSE probably isn't as important as it feels right now.
My only other thought is how many GCSE subjects would the two options leave in total. If it is 9 vs 10 I'd be happy with that but 8 vs 9 might leave me a bit anxious. As I understand it, Universities tend to look at a prospective student's top 8 GCSE results, so if you are taking 9 and you have a bad day in one subject (or, like my DS, you hate English Lit!) an outlying lower result doesn't really matter that much. But if you only sit 8 and have a weak subject within them it might be more of an issue. I guess I am trying to say in a long winded way that I would go for the option which gives a higher probability of at least 8 good grades across the board as that is perhaps more important than whether there is a double or triple award for science.

At my DC's school they used to do the spiral curriculum described earlier on but have switched to a different approach. Unfortunately, this means that at the start of Y10, only 30 students are put on the triple science pathway with the remainder stuck doing combined and with no prospect of being moved because they are being taught different content. When DC1 did GCSEs a couple of years ago, it wasn't until the start of Y11 that the triple vs combined decision was fixed.

DC1 isn't that interested in science and would have been very happy doing combined but was in the top set and so did triple. It turned out that this worked in their favour because it meant their weakest subject's grade didn't affect the grade they ended up with for their strongest science. They got 7, 8 and 9 across the sciences and knowing that the chemistry mark wouldn't affect the physics one definitely helped with perspective!

DC2 loves science and desperately wanted to do triple. There are complicated reasons as to why DC2 underperformed in the end of Y9 assessment but those missing three marks have resulted in DC2 not being allowed to do triple because there are already 30 students in the class. DC2 was #33 in the year. It's been a source of huge disappointment and upset, especially as the lowest mark was in the subject DC2 is usually best at. Quite apart from DC2 wanting to do triple, being put on the combined pathway runs the risk of one science bringing down the overall grade. DC2 is finding this extremely stressful and is worried they'll miss out on being able to do A-levels in their two preferred sciences.

It's felt like a huge inequality of opportunity, especially given DC1's year group were able to switch between the two for a whole extra year. So that DC2 has the best opportunity to get the highest grades in the separate subjects, they won't be sitting the combined exams. We have now agreed this with the school that we will cover the additional material with DC1 so they can sit the separate papers when the time comes.

All in all, it doesn't matter which your DD does but if she's not equally strong in all three sciences, it may pay to think strategically.

Many schools cant staff triple science classes, that is most likely why it was limited to 30.