Last minute panic - number of GCSEs?

[Ilikecheeses]

I’m about to submit the secondary form and a friend of mine mentioned they weren’t putting ‘x’ school and ‘y’ school because they only do 8 GCSEs and have one free option. I’ll admit I had a look at what range was offered to make sure it was balanced between academic/practical/some vocational but I didn’t look in detail at the number of GCSEs they allow their pupils to do so it’s come as a bit of a shock to me that the nice ranges of subjects I looked at is completely pointless.

School 1 - 8 GCSEs
English x2, maths, Science x2, French, history or geography, one free choice.

School 2 - 9 GCSEs
English x2, maths, science x3, French or German, history or geography, one free choice.

School 3 - 8/9 GCSEs
English x2, maths, science x2/3, an EBacc subject from french, German, history, geography or computer science, 2 free choices.

There are some other schools which offer 9 and have 2 free options. But the ones on my list, which are the ones mentioned above, all seem pretty similar to me. School 3 is more flexible and doesn’t insist on EBacc, the other 2 insist on EBacc. Does it matter? Or is this pointless worry? Should I stick with what I originally planned which was chosen based on other factors?

Is school 1 Michaela or similar? If so, it’s the most successful school in the country in terms of progress, and the ‘only two sciences’ certainly hasn’t slowed it down. The ethos/behaviour wouldn’t be for everyone though. If it isn’t Michaela, the same argument still stands: two sciences is clearly enough. It won’t stop you getting to the next stage.

In terms of whether 8 GCSEs is enough, most colleges only require five for the next steps. I’d argue it’s probably better to do very well in eight than ‘okay’ in 10 or 11, and if you have a particularly academic child, they could always do an additional one online?

Short version: choose the school that you and your child like most. Don’t worry about others’ opinions or numbers of GCSEs.

Double or triple science usually means all 3 sciences are studied but the double or combined gives them 2 GCSE grades and they are either equal ie 9,9 or one less 9,8, you cannot have 8,5 for example. They sit the same number of papers 2 each for biology, chemistry and physics the only difference is the paper content and the length of the paper, double was 1hr 15 for Ds1 and triple was 1hr 45 for Ds2.

Ds1 "only" did combined and took a science A level, 3/4 of the class had only done combined and there was very little new content from the GCSE to learn for the A level to even them all to the same standard. He did get 9,9 at GCSE though.

Ds2 took triple or individual sciences but it isn't an option subject. They fast track their learning in year 9 and decide in year 10 who will continue to triple. They finished combined content before the end of year 10 anyway as a whole group but only those on 9,9 were asked if they wanted to do triple science.

I think you have chosen schools on the same criteria we did. But mine did 9 GCSEs with free reign on choosing 4 options. Ds2 got 10 GCSE results. Lots of state schools "only" do 9.

School 2 has lots of connections to the theatre and lots of extra curricular theatre and arts going on, but equally so does school C. Both of these schools offer music and performing arts at GCSE.

while that’s good for your ds, looking at the information you’ve put on, your ds couldn’t do both music and performing arts at GCSE at school 2, only at school 3. (And yes, worth considering they might change when they get to gcse choices!)

As PP said, this could all change by the time your DS gets to do his options.

School 2 has lots of connections to the theatre and lots of extra curricular theatre and arts going on, but equally so does school C. Both of these schools offer music and performing arts at GCSE. Is that important to your dc? Presumably they can follow these extra curricular or at local groups.

The whole argument on whether only taking combined science makes it harder at A level is surely dependent on the child and what grade they come in on. Some colleges state 6,6 which means the A level content will be deemed harder for those students. Ds came in on 9,9, but did get the second highest science grade in the school at GCSE. So he got an A star at A level.

It doesn't limit them by only taking combined as they still cover all 3 sciences. Ds2 learned triple science content as an add on so he could see all the new stuff he was learning compared to combined. It was a fuck up due to covid. Usually they fast track but didn't push due to online learning. Out of an entire year group they only took 60 onto triple/individual sciences.

My DD's high performing school only allowed 8 GCSEs- it's not number, it's grades that are important. And double science is fine...

@Ilikecheeses does school 1 at least have triple science as one of its options? Either way, I'd personally avoid it, because it doesn't appear to prioritise science, and may have gone down thar route because it is struggling to recruit enough science teachers (a common problem).

It may be worth checking what each school does for Religious Studies (aka Religion & Philosophy in many schools, and covering ethics as well as learning about at least 2 religions to compare and contrast). It is compulsory for all children to be taught a certain number of hours of it in Key Stage 4, so some schools make it a compulsory GCSE, though it can be done as a "short course" GCSE with half the hours of a full GCSE. The full course includes modules on religious practice, and tends to only be compulsory in some faith schools. Our non-faith school does the short course, but the students sit the exam at the end of year 10. Then they don't need to study it at all in Year 11, so time is freed up. It works well, as it means they get some external exam practice a year early.

Lack of triple science option would worry me.

The other deciding factor is where does your DC want to go? Have you been to the open days?

Yes, we have been to the open days. We actually looked at 6 schools. One which myself and DH rules out almost instantly, then one we rules out after some deliberation. Of the remaining 4 we allowed DS to choose his 3 favourites then we, as parents, ordered them. We just didn’t factor in number of GCSEs or GCSE combinations as we weren’t aware of the number of restrictions that have appeared in the last 15 years.

Is school 1 Michaela or similar?

No, never even heard of it. Good to hear that it’s all about quality and not quantity. I’m also reassured to hear double or triple science doesn’t matter that much.

@LIZS yes, he could do them out of school, and does for theatre group. We are going to have to figure something out for recorders once he leaves primary.
I agree that this could be a way of continuing these interests, but I am seeing the points in the arguments for having the option to do them at school. What if that’s what he wants to do in the future? What if he doesn’t like science?

@raynraynrayn school 1 has triple as one of the options but this means there will be no option for arts, extra humanities or extra languages. I’m not saying he will want to do extra languages or humanities, but at this stage I don’t know what he will do. None of the schools have a compulsory RE GCSE. They have core RE but it isn’t examined.

I think I’m siding with @LimeCheesecake on this. The flexibility might work better for us.

I think I will survey DS again and see which of the three he would choose as his favourite and why.

Just a wales thing.

Amazing that you have the choice of so many schools with a reasonable expectation of getting a place. Here there are 4 schools we could have included that are near. Only one is a catchment school, the next nearest is a faith school (where our DC went), the 2 others out of catchment are: a just out of catchment but highly popular school which is relatively small but has an overly large feeder primary that fills most of its places; the other is way out of catchment and ruled out by us as DC plays a large brass instrument and the school isn’t on the bus route. DCs cohort mostly went to the far away school (goodish) and the catchment school (okish).

I think they all offer 10 GCSEs and the option of triple science and further maths in the mix. The small school and the big school gave 6th forms - small school only offers Baccalaureate, big school has tiny sixth form. Most go to sixth form colleges or FE college. One sixth form has an admissions score system, 9 GCSE predicted grades are used to calculate this. We do know of someone who took 8 and got in but he has SEN and the 8 he took were very good grades.

I teach one of the sciences at A level in a sixth form college. Those with 8/9s in combined science GCSEs are absolutely fine and often they do better than those scraping in with 3 6s in triple science. The higher grades show a better level of understanding which will help them far more than a basic knowledge of more topics.
If your DC isn’t sure what he wants to do in the future he won’t be disadvantaged with combined instead of triple science.

I like in an 11+ area. The kids who don't pass all go to combined science schools, and seem to cope well if they want to do triple for A level.

Yy to those saying you can do science A levels with double. Especially if that is the standard offer at the school - more will go forward to its sixth form with double.

Yes there may be some content to cover but it can be done. But if a student like science, then I personally would prefer triple not to be offered only as an option and that the only option.

ds2 was v keen on science but bio more than chem, so single sciences suited him better.

Your reasons for preferring schools sound good @Ilikecheeses . I agree you are fortunate to have three good schools you might well get into. I would still be tempted (other things being equal!) to favour the one offering more choice tho.

Meant to as @Ilikecheeses do any or all of them have sixth form?

As an experienced head of science, I advise you to ignore those telling you that triple science matters. Not being able to study triple science in no way limits your A-level choices or future career prospects.

Only based on the information in the original post, I’d pick school C as it’s the only one that allows a significant choice for GCSE. School A is as limited as you can get, and sounds to me like a school trying to increase their stats (progress and attainment 8 scores and % studying Ebac) at the expense of a broad curriculum.

This is straightforwardly not true. Dd moved at 6th form from a good but double science only school (one of the reasons they did this was to preserve options - everyone does Maths, 2xEnglish, dual science but then there are 5 true option blocks so someone can do 2x languages, 2x DT, Art + Music, History + Geography or whatever).

She moved to a triple only school. Her teachers assured her that the only gaps were in Y13 content, and were covered in an additional lesson that they taught everyone because they’d forgotten the GCSE content by then. She - and all the others who moved from her school, all of whom did Science A-levels - all got A* or A in their Science A levels.

(Sorry, missed the quote. I am replying to the person saying those who have only done double Science will struggle at A level)

@clary schools 1 and 2 have 6th forms. School 3 doesn’t. School 2 has a very good 6th form. School 3 is thinking about introducing a 6th form.

I asked DS which of the 3 he prefers and he hasn’t a clue. He did mention 2 and 3 maybe he would prefer over 1, so I am taking that into consideration.

School 1 originally made the top of the list, because, based on the factors we looked into, everything was equal and school 1 is the closest (20 min walk). School 2 requires a bus and school 3 is just further away (30 min walk).

Actually, I’m looking back over all of this and I’m very glad I asked the question because I’m now questioning why we put school 1 at the top…

Tbf, I think it is something that used to be more true in the past - in the old A* - E GCSE, the combined science option had somewhat less content and so the step to A level was larger.

When the 9-1 GCSE was brought in, the content of the double science award was increased to a point where it was close to the old triple science. As the A level curriculum remained pretty much the same, the gap in content is now insignificant.

I was worried about it when DS and DD were younger. In the end, the ability for both to do 2 languages, for DD to do Art and DT Textiles and a humanity and DS to do Music and 2 humanities well outweighed, in breadth of education terms, the very small gap in Science.

May be worth looking at whether any of the schools do extra GCSEs as after school provision, too. DC’s school did Dance, a couple more languages, Additional Maths etc as ‘extras’ after school or over a few weekends.

There's no need to do 9 DS is at Oxbridge with 8

Info on no. of GCSEs taken in 2022, in response to OPs comment about taking 12 (actually not sure it was OP's comment?).
One of my kids took 12. It was a mistake as despite getting a lot of top grades it meant a lower result in English, which is a bit of a crucial exam. They would have been better focusing on 8 or 9.

I would be more concerned about having to chose History OR geography with 1+2 instead of being able to take them both.