22% of students didn't get Grade 4 or higher in Maths or English this summer

[Itfelloffwithaclunk]

Did anyone else see Breakfast News with this item this morning? Over one fifth of students having to retake, because of a 'perfect storm' of high numbers taking them (a high birth year apparently), and returning to pre pandemic grade boundaries.

I'm really shocked. The very eloquent teacher from Greater Manchester was very interesting on this subject.

@noblegiraffe they enter all children. about 50% are 4, about 40% 5+, but it is a special school with focus on dyslexia/ASD/Adhd. Every child in the school has been given up on by the standard school system.
Pretty amazing what can be done if the right support is in place!

Ah, so by pass you mean grade 1+

Lots of people when they say "pass maths and English" mean at grade 4+ because that's the grade required so that you don't need to resit.

Every child in the school has been given up on by the standard school system. Pretty amazing what can be done if the right support is in place!

Rather unfair on the mainstream system - if they are in a special school, that's not because mainstream has given up on them, but because the right support isn't available in mainstream.

@noblegiraffe no, pass is 4+
about 40% get a 4
about 50% get 5+
about 10% less than 4
The mainstream school system is unfair on SENDs kids!

Are you sure? Originally you said 50% were 4+ and 40% were 5+ which would seem a more usual way of describing results?

What do you mean given up on? These are the very lucky few who are able to access education in an appropriate setting. There's thousands of kids who should be in special schools but can't. The kids in this school shouldn't have been in a mainstream school if special is what can meet their needs. Obviously it can take time to realise that but miracles are being expected of mainstream schools at the moment. These kids weren't given up on, they're the lucky ones.

@noblegiraffe I said 50% are a 4, 40% a 5+. Sorry, turned the percentage around.
It has been like that for many years (i just doublechecked the official tables - it is correct).
My son has in comparison with his classmates relatively few problems - he is only severely dyslexic, dysgraphic and highly anxious.

@Foxesandsquirrels that’s exactly what I mean. These kids should be in special schools, mainstream can’t do them justice. And it’s not fair on the kids, on the teachers who don’t have the resources, or the other kids in the class who have to deal with the meltdowns.

I said 50% are a 4, 40% a 5+

I would assume that this means 50% are 4+, 40% are 5+, not that 50% get a 4 and that an additional 50% get a 5 or more - i.e. the 4+ pass rate would be 50%

Sorry and this too. What bs. Special schools aren't all the same you do know that? My DD attends a specialist independent school which also caters to mostly profoundly dyslexic, ADHD and ASD kids. They are tiny. They are also selective. If a child cannot access the mainstream curriculum they don't get an offer of admission. If they are not accessing the GCSE curriculum after admission they are put onto entry level qualifications. I would dig a bit deeper into those stats you've got as I suspect they're not as amazing as you imagine. Lots of kids with SEND are very capable of achieving GCSE level work, but lots aren't.
There are loads of kids in the state system who wouldn't be admitted to my DDs current school. State schools have to take them. When these schools try to move them to special schools, often they get a 'no, sorry we can't meet their needs they're too significant'. I agree with you that the system fails kids, but I do not agree with you that all are able to achieve a 4 or above. Your children's school is an academic specialist school. It is not your run of the mill special school.

Exactly. Incidentally that's also the pass rate (grade 4 plus) for the low prior attainers at my school this summer. Not because the teaching was any better but because we do happened to get kids that were compliant and determined with very supportive families for the most part.

There is a huge difference between 4+ and 5 +. Have to be more specific. Here where I live there are several comprehe sibe schools that have 86 perc 5+ 78 perc 5+ etc and for 4 + it is above 90 percent.
It is not uncommon

This is very good results for a school dedicated to kids with learning difficulties

Have you seen the foundation maths paper ? I am astounded that anyone could think it is " too hard" adult life in the 21st century requires an understanding of percentages, compound interest, prorabilty as well as simple arithmetic. We are really doing our DCs a diservice of we let them leave school not having a grasp of these basic concepts.

@noblegiraffe It's a comprehensive. Not selective. The 96% figure is for 4+ in maths and English. This is the pass grade for not having to resit. I believe they call 5+ a good pass.

@artemis9 Couldn't agree more and really hope there's an overhaul of English GCSE.

My DS isn't at that age yet but i do worry about his future education. He is autistic and while he writes and articulates himself really well in logic/fact based subject like science, history, geography, English grammar etc, he falls down in English overall because he struggles to infer, read between the lines, understand subtle nuances or emotions of characters, figurative language etc. Meeting the needs for effective creative writing also doesn't come to him easily. Yet his grasp of English and ability to write and articulate facts and other people's opinions in written form is outstanding.

Sadly, he is likely to fail GCSE English when the time comes or at best he may scrape by. And that is a big shame as he excels in everything else bar questions/tasks that involve inference/creative writing. This in turn will impact university applications down the line.

But they haven’t “failed” here. They just got a mark that was below 4. It’s the same if you did CSEs. There were a set of number grades. GCSEs encompass both the old O level and the CSE.

The problem though is that getting that magic 4 opens so many doors to courses and employment. Not having the 4 dooms the student to resitting in college.
So although it is a Level 1 pass, it is not a Level 2 pass, and it feels like a fail.

in terms of English Language GCSE, the official JCQ figures for students gaining the 5 'high pass' and above this year in England is 47.9% and those gaining the 4 - a low pass - and above, is 64.2%. This is not really because schools are 'failing' the third of kids that aren't passing or that such students aren't working. I'm sure this is because the exam is testing something other than basic literacy skills and yet this is what the measure is being used to judge ie if you gain a 4 you gain some passport to further studies, and if not, then you have to (endlessly) retake and for many students they maintain the cycle of failure. 'Retake' success figures are not great. The alternative, at that point, is the literacy Level 2 qualification which is much more logically linked to the basics of reading and writing but is not always offered. It could be done in Y11 but few schools are set up to provide this as it's pretty admin heavy. The GCSE test simply isn't testing what it purports to test in terms of the general public's view of what it is, in terms of English. For maths, the English stats are 43% passing at grade 5 or above and 61% grade 4. Something is broken here and young people who 'do not fit the academic mould' are not being served well. It needs calling out.

@ItsRainingTacos79 the GCSE specs should be due for redevelopment soon. That's been delayed due to covid but under normal circumstances new courses would be in development already in this timeframe. Let's hope this happens before your DC takes them. I just hope someone with influence sees sense - that we need to test precisely what this threshold is for, for those that need to simply demonstrate the basics of numeracy, reading and writing for whatever they want to go on to do. Hopefully Gove and his cronies will be well out of the frame and there will be some recognition of what is genuinely necessary as a basic threshold in those areas, while allowing the students that have the ability to go much further, to have done the necessary learning.

The alternative, at that point, is the literacy Level 2 qualification which is much more logically linked to the basics of reading and writing but is not always offered. It could be done in Y11 but few schools are set up to provide this as it's pretty admin heavy.

It isn't offered in Y11 because it doesn't count for league tables.
Also for retakes, if a student gets a grade 3 they have to retake GCSE, they're not allowed to sit alternative qualifications instead. If they get a grade 2 or below they could sit functional skills.

@artemis9 there will never be 100% kids passing. Even if all were able to. The way grade boundaries work make that impossible.

And, just for good measure, if you leave college at the end of y13 but haven't got your maths or English but still want to pursue it, you fall into a funding black hole for a year. Too young for adult education, but have to be on a full time course for 16-19 education.

I think GCSE retakes should be offered in y12 for those who want, but then functional skills offered in y13.

I did ask earlier but seriously have any of you seen a foundation level mayhs GCSE paper. It is not for those fitting an " academic mold" any reasonably bright 12 year old could do it and some brighter 9 or 10 year olds. If 40% of our 16yo olds are not at that level after 12 years of compulsory education, we really need to take a hard look at what ( if anything) they are being taught not lower the bar.

Maths example below : are we really saying this is too hard for NT 16yos ? Jesus wept.

No we aren't.
But that is not a grade 4 or 5 question.

Kids have to be able to do the grade 4/5 questions at the end of the paper. The ones where they have to know a trig value off by heart, or know how to find angles in a polygon, or use parallel line rules. And they have to have the time and stamina left by the time they get there.

You may be a 'Neurodiversitydoctor' but you clearly have little understanding of how some children can struggle.

Plus remember at y11 they have to do the maths exams embedded in a whole bunch of other exams. They may be exhausted from the sheer marathon.