Anyone moved from Grammar to comp?

[Ifitsmeanttobe]

Ds has always been challenging behaviour (adhd and asd traits) but is very academic and fits right into a grammar school with the idea of keeping him out trouble.
Older sibling is at local large comp and most of his primary mates are there too.
His teachers at primary very much supported the idea of grammar and told us his behaviour support and pastoral care would be much better at grammar.
He’s always had issues with building and maintaining relationships and while he is a popular child he can also be an alpha male which creates issues which i think already caused a rift between him and another child.
This week he cried and begged me to try and move him to our local school.
My heart breaks for him as i know the situation will be same even if we move him. He will have the same issues with peer relationship but with the added issue of getting it the wrong crowd, falling behind academicly.
He does not believe me when i tell him he initially might find comfort in seeing his old primary mates but the same way as he never formed a close bond with them, the same conflicts will still be there. He feels left out as still very much sees groups chats about what some of them do.
I just hoped that by the end of the first term he would have come round.

My oldest was similar. By week two of his grammar school he hated it, particularly the bus journey (loud, and long by comparison to his village primary around the corner - 40 minute journey rather than 8 minute walk). So we started driving him there and back every day but that wasn't the only issue for him. We couldn't tell what was a normal wobble for the transition to secondary and what were issues with the school itself. We got pastoral support (this wasn't as good as the support in the local secondary, as I found out from other parents) but he was still deeply unhappy. We had said we would move him in Y8 if he still felt the same but he took matters into his own hands as he started to misbehave so that he would get kicked out. We did then move him to avoid that and he was much happier, he behaved well, and was achieving but I have to say the culture there is for the boys to muck about, be silly, immature and at times quite unpleasant with their language and disrespect of the school property so he has to to work hard to focus and in all honesty he doesn't always manage it. The teaching is of higher quality at the grammar. Our younger son is in Y9 there and doing really well, and he gets quite shocked at some of the stories his brother comes home with. But at no point has my older son ever regretted moving. We are getting him extra tuition to help him with his GCSEs though. I would see a move as a last resort.

Thank you for this. This sounds identical to us. his older sibling is already at our local comp but he’s always been better behaved generally and even he now gets into trouble at times due to peer pressure.
He’s always needed to be academically challenged for him to keep his interest in working. it absolutely petrifies me not knowing it we would be making the biggest mistake here if we moved him

Have you spoken to the form tutor, head of year or senco at the grammar to ask for their support / advice. Head of year or senco might be best placed.

no not yet but it will be my next step. they did a one to one chat with every yr7 a few weeks ago and he didn’t say that he had any issues. He doesn’t want to talk to them about it i think as he knows as well that it’s not the school but more him wanting to be with the local kids. i just feel so down/disappointed about it all. I feel it would be a big mistake but then he is so head strong that he won’t rest until he sees it for himself at which point it will be too late to go back

Also it being a secondary us parents don’t see or get told much about what’s happening in there

@Ifitsmeanttobe

but with the added issue of getting it the wrong crowd, falling behind academicly

Honestly, not all kids in comprehensive schools are the " wrong crowd". Actually, a minority is. Also, at a good comprehnsive schools there are many academically capable kids that will perform at GCSE no worse than kids at Grammar.
On the other hand, there are plenty of naughty kids at boys' grammar schools

of course there are but i’m talking specifically about my child who i know and also about my other child who is already in this school so have experience and knowledge about how things work.
and you are right right there absolutely are plenty of naughty kids in this mixed grammar.
As i mentioned in my previous post my son is quite complex in every way and what might work for one child doesn’t for another. That’s why it’s such a hard decision

I know that it will not help much but to cheer you up I would like to add that usualy the bright and complex kids turn out to be innovators, the people who dare to question the old and improve the things. The " Yes Sir" type will be just duty fulfillers.

with all of mine, I said if you are still unhappy at the end of year 7, then you can move. That shows you are listening and willing, but allows them time to try and settle.

Do get school involved as much as possible

I would absolutely agree with you but unfortunately (and i hope im wrong) there will be a very fine line between him making the wrong decisions or actually putting his brain and his drive in the right use.

I would take serious issue with the primary school teachers who told you that the behaviour and pastoral support would be better at a grammar school. The behaviour culture is often very different to a comp but this is because you have a critical mass of children who come from homes where academic achievement is valued and prioritised, and who have had to learn skills of discipline and study much earlier than many of their peers because almost all of them have undertaken tuition or other preparation for 11+. There will of course still be misbehaviour but it is usually infrequent and perpetrated by a small minority who are relatively easily dealt with.

In comparison, the systems and expertise in place to support behaviour and pastoral care in a well-run comp would knock spots off many grammars. They have to be much more robust because the level of need in the pupil population is likely to be much higher.

All of this means that a grammar school can be an excellent environment for an able child with SEMH needs if they are the kind of child who will fall in with the crowd within a studious, calm environment. This does not, however, mean that a child with a more complex presentation will get the pastoral support that they need in school.

I would not personally consider moving him yet. I would give it at least until Christmas and try to help him to find his tribe, perhaps through extra-curricular activities. If, however, you get to the summer term and he is still telling you, either verbally or through his behaviour, that he is miserable, you may need to consider that it is not the school for him.

Yes that’s what i’m thinking. Last night his dad told him if he was still feeling like this at christmas he would be willing to discuss options.
Out of interest any of them ended up changing schools?

I really agree with this.
my 3 all went to good grammars, and I have noticed that their parameter of what is normal is pretty narrow and they struggle to cope with behaviour which falls too far outside it.

You should engage with the school to discuss the issues….and do it quickly. Don’t go through a process of thinking it through and making decisions and only involving them in the late stages once you’ve basically made your mind up. There could be all kinds of things they can do and try which are very worth having a go at before looking to move him.

When schools say they want to know about what’s goi g on and want to communicate with parents…they do. But they aren’t mind readers. Email the Head of Year and ask to meet and talk about the issues and to discuss what school can do to support your son. When you meet, ask to arrange a follow-up meeting and be really pro-active about staying in touch with school. Copy in Form Tutor and Head of Year and anyone else significant in your communications.

If you end up moving him, it should be after lots of effort from everyone to make it work.

I've not got an experience to share, but I would give the grammar a full term minimum. A single half term is not long enough, and it sounds like he could move and have similar issues with friendships in another school.

Agree with comments to reach out to form tutor, head of year, Senco. Also, is there an extra curricular group that might help him find his tribe? We're a couple of years off secondary, but I will be encouraging my ADHD quirky son to be looking at chess/maths clubs.

SENCO! Immediately!
At least adaptation course should be offered. Head of the year also can assist and offer try fresh start in another form.
If you have the child with ASD and ADHD probably you already know about own vision of our World.
You should be a lawyer, mediator, parent and doctor.
Your child will not speak without back support. He can be a top student but behaviour and communication like at 5years old child.

thanks pastoral team and senco involved now. he has opened up to them about how unhappy he is and explained that he just wants to be with his friends at our local school. Sounds reasonable. There is nothing negative he can say about the school apart from the commute 45 min there and 45 back . They will have him talk to a senior students who has been in his shoes and get him involved in extra curriculum but the daily upset from him wears us all down

Hello OP - I could’ve written everything you’ve said in your post. I just wondered how things have developed since your last post as were in a similar situation with our son…

Helo 👋@HalleyH
Things unfortunately have not improved in fact got worse. Senco involved and tried to give him rest breaks but his behaviour hasn’t changed. Lack of focus at lesson messing around and issues with authority (not a new thing i believe ODD) plus some racist language too which made things even worse.
We got to a point where he had so many detentions and one day Ds tried to run off why tipped them over the edge and they actually realised that his needs were a lot more severe than he anticipated.
They made it clear that we can’t go on like this and we are looking at possible suspension but agreed.
At that point we agreed to look at adhd medication which we are hopefully going to start the next couple of weeks.
I have to say that since that lowest point and our meeting, their attitude seem to have changed and realised that ds needs praise rather than detentions.
He’s also spent time working on his own during lessons he’s struggled with.
He still seem to be getting ok grades and just finished his assessment week.
I think everyone is holding out until we get on the meds and hoping things will improve.
I told him we need to get his adhd under control before i consider moving him (if there is a space as currently full)
So he knows this and at the minute is keeping his eye on the ball but i still very think the comp isn’t for him.
Will let you know how things are once we started meds.

Wish your DS all the best and appreciated you're doing your best to support.

@Ifitsmeanttobe

and realised that ds needs praise rather than detentions.
Exactly. A reward chart does miracles

Also, I am not sure if the situation would improve in other schools. He would also struggle with the same behavioral issues. It is not like grammar schools have more restrictive behavioral expectations. If he is ok in terms of results it is better to work with psychologist than transferring him.

@JustWingItLifeEyelinerEverything i agree with you this is all i’m thinking however our issue is that DS is 100% set on wanting to be in the local comp and has always been on this opinion. He is adamant that a lot of his issues are because he does not want to be in that school and never did and there is nothing i can say to him that would make him see my view.
So this is an added issue in the whole and our current agreement is that we need to get his adhd sorted and start the meds then we will re visit the change of school situation.
He’s just finished his yearly exams and he feels he’s done well which makes me feel even more bitter about moving him school 😕

Please take him for one trial day at the local comprehensive. The schools usually allow that if there is a place that could potentially be allocated to him.
He may find that his idea of how it is in the local comprehensive may completely vanish and he will be disillusioned. Worth a try!

and yes in the whole i don’t think that the local comp will be less strict but perhaps due to its size there will be a lot more children misbehaving so ds won’t stick out as much as he does in grammar although again he tells me once we move him school, he will be a changed child.
I just don’r think they will have the time and resources to cater for his complex personality. I am considering exploring an ODD diagnoses to try and help him in the future. Not sure if it would help though

im not sure if there is such thing as a trial day but will ask.
For him it’s all the familiar faces who know him and all his mates from football which in my opinion is not a reason to swap school but he is a child who is incredibly stubborn and i fear by the time he realises, it will be too late