Anyone moved from Grammar to comp?

[Ifitsmeanttobe]

Ds has always been challenging behaviour (adhd and asd traits) but is very academic and fits right into a grammar school with the idea of keeping him out trouble.
Older sibling is at local large comp and most of his primary mates are there too.
His teachers at primary very much supported the idea of grammar and told us his behaviour support and pastoral care would be much better at grammar.
He’s always had issues with building and maintaining relationships and while he is a popular child he can also be an alpha male which creates issues which i think already caused a rift between him and another child.
This week he cried and begged me to try and move him to our local school.
My heart breaks for him as i know the situation will be same even if we move him. He will have the same issues with peer relationship but with the added issue of getting it the wrong crowd, falling behind academicly.
He does not believe me when i tell him he initially might find comfort in seeing his old primary mates but the same way as he never formed a close bond with them, the same conflicts will still be there. He feels left out as still very much sees groups chats about what some of them do.
I just hoped that by the end of the first term he would have come round.

Hi OP.
I haven't read the full thread but I have read your posts.
My DD is out the other side of her grammar school education so I thought I'd offer a couple of observations..
Behaviour can be quite poor in grammar schools but I think they also work quite hard to support kids who struggle - I suspect they have a higher proportion of ND children overall too.
There were kids in her year who I think would have been suspended from the local comp (many times over!) but the grammar stuck with them and kept trying.
If your local comp is in an academy - discipline is often very tight.
Friendships change..
DD hated her school for quite a while! Did really well academically but was sad and miserable. I offered her to change schools but she thought it would be miserable wherever she was. But it did get better. It took until yr9 to find a good friendship group and they've stayed together and all gone to the same 6th form.
She said recently that even with hindsight and knowing how unhappy she was at first, she thinks it was the right school for her.
Another thing I have noticed is that as they get older it seems less important which school you go to (for peer socialising) and the teens around where I live all seem to know each other despite a myriad of primary/secondary school options.
It's tough when your kids are unsettled and I hope you find the right way for your DS.

@Ifitsmeanttobe My son was behaving terribly in Year 5. He wasn't aggressive, but he said inappropriate things to draw attention to himself. I invested a lot of time helping him build friendships outside of school, including with girls. I spent hours explaining things to him, and he also received support from the head of pastoral care.

In Year 6, he's a completely different child. He is now very aware of appropriate behavior. His Year 6 teacher was surprised when I asked about his behavior, as there have been no issues whatsoever.

So please don't worry. It is just a phase he is going through. He is simply immature and needs sessions with a psychologist and a supportive circle of friends outside of school to help him understand social boundaries and what is as they say " cringe".😀

@Beamur thanks for this and nice to know your daughter has eventually seen the positive side of things.
Ds is very complex in every way and our situation is quite unique i think as it his older brother is at the local comp saying that he does not have and never has had behaviour issues at school.
Ds2 has always been defiant and quite odd but very gifted and driven.
Im his eye it’s as simple as just want to be with my mates but he discounts and forgets all the issues we have encountered with him.
He currently does not attend certain subjects that he struggles to get along with teachers so i think unfortunately it will be quite a while (maybe for boys the sense comes in later) before we see a difference in behaviour and we can’t afford to wait that long as event in this grammar they have mentioned exclusion and suspension

I think you are taking the right approach by trying to get him more settled on ADHD medication first and then revisiting the 'which school' situation.

I have an ADHD/ASD child, in Yr 5, so potentially have all this to come. We are currently looking at a number of secondary options, 3 grammar schools, 2 high schools and feel strongly I will listen to my son's opinion on the schools. They all have pros and cons around pastoral care, SEN support, cohort of students, religion.

One of the grammar schools on our list is walking distance, but I don't get the best feel from the place. I can easily see why a child would be unhappy there. It's also got a wobbly reputation for SEN and pastoral care. I personally don't think grammar is 'the be all and end all' and if your son is bright, he has the potential to do well anyway in a comprehensive type school and an environment he is happier in. I'm also surprised your primary school suggested pastoral care would be better in a grammar school. Sweeping generalisation, but a lot of grammars are really poor for pastoral care compared to comprehensive schools.

I think you may get more assurance from him being able to manage in non grammar once ADHD medication is sorted out. It's really helped my son with impulsivity/behaviour in general. Fingers crossed he titrates quickly on some suitable medication.

Bright kids with robust personalities will thrive pretty much anywhere.
If your DS has oppositional tendancies I can imagine little you say will be listened to at this point!
A friend of mines DS was diagnosed with ASD, ADHD and is highly oppositional. She's learning to parent him very differently to her natural style and in the main it's working well. She's a bit nervous about puberty kicking in, but it's inevitable so she's buckling up for the next couple of years.
FWIW it sounds like you've taken a supportive and proactive approach which is all we can do as parents. Maybe he will be happier in the comp and you know you have done your best. High school can be a very bumpy experience.

You may already have it, OP, but The Explosive Child is excellent for guidance and insights on parenting an oppositional DC.

thank you @yoshiblue that's good to know that meds helped with adhd. i’m really hoping it will be the same for us although slightly worry about the comorbid condition that may pair with adhd as heard they may become worst with the meds so worry about the ODD side of things but at this stage can’t do much but keep hopes up and take it each day as it comes.
All the teachers i spoke seem to the on the opinion that grammar would have a higher tolerance to his behaviour and he would have been expelled in a comp by now.
As my older does not get into troubles like ds, i can’t fully comment but to me incidents seem to be dealt with quite similarly in both.
Maybe they base it on size and staff capacity. Local com is 10 form and grammar is 5 🤷‍♀️

thank you yes i have it but have to admit not looked at it for years. Puberty makes things even more tricky. Having 4 boys makes things very difficult to parent differently even tho we have to as they are so hyper focused on ‘fairness’ and model each others behaviour

Interesting comment there about comorbid conditions. In our situation we found the ASC traits ramped up once his ADHD symptoms settled. Lots more rigidity about what he liked and could cope with environmentally but also even more rule bound than he was. There could be some positives here!!!

As you say, take each day as it comes. These conditions are all so unique for each individual, that what happens for one doesn't happen for another. Thinking of you and wishing you well.

That’s good to know thanks. Hopefully we can start our journey on the meds soon and will see some positives. Will let you know how it goes.

I wish you all the best:)

OP I have an ADHD child and work with plenty more one in particular through sport that sounds exactly like your DS.
Having read the whole thread your DS sounds miserable and desperate to move. He's now not attending some classes etc Poor lad. Please just let him move.
I am at a loss why you think the comp won't cater better for his needs as there is every possibility it will. They will be used to working with a massive variety of kids Inc SEN.
There is a Mumsnet perception that comps are full of kids that will drag yours into poor behaviour. Not the experience of anyone I know across countless comps. Top sets especially will have studious behaved kids.
The sporty kids stick together quite a bit as do the musical ones etc
ADHD meds help them focus better but it won't change his mind.

If your DS isn't going to classes as he struggles to get on with the teachers it is highly likely that's because they aren't tolerating him and as such he'll just clash with them. We have been there with one very rigid strict teacher.
It was a mutual clash. But he's not going to succeed if not in classes nor make good mates.
Grammars expect conformity.
I'd recommend the book 'How not to kill your ADHD child'. It has a chapter on defiance too

Thanks for your reply @deeprealisation . I am consider every advice and possibility at the minute as really stuck as to what the best option would be.
Our agreement is let’s get the adhd under control with the meds then we ll talk about change of school. He is currently waiting for a place so it’s not like i can give him what he wants but hopefully after summer there will be one for him.
My theory about comp not being the right school for him is that there will be more kids likeminded as in wanting to mess around so he will have more of a partner in crime and i feel that as its a larger school they will struggle more to cater to individual needs such as dealing with his ODD tendencies with certain teachers i must add they are normally younger female teachers.
He has just stated meds yesterday so im really hoping things will settle down for him and we can finally move forward and he can be where he wants to be.

it is hard for me to see how well the school is dealing with his sen needs but based on the meetings we have with the head they seemed quite reasonable about putting things in place and listening to us however i have noted a couple of occasions that the communication between Sen and all the teachers, are not great as in we might agree on certain aspect of dealing with his adhd but turned out it was not communicated to the teachers so they didn’t allow ds out during lesson.
I don’t have any other comparison in this grammar so i can’t tell how good or bad they are but their reputation and results for sen students are outstanding but again im not sure if adhd is a regular occurrence sen need in a grammar. i would have though it would be more Asd but again have no statistics

I think 'outstanding for SEN' can be misleading personally as it so depends on the SEN. Dealing with dyslexia is very different from ADHD for example.
A very strict rule driven small grammar where all classes are done in forms might suit a child with ASD more than a big comp where they mix all the classes. This applies to a friend of ours.
One Uber strict comp near me in theory has good SEN results but hidden behind that is a significant number who have left to go to a more holistic comp up the road. They in effect manage out the issues.
The teacher my child clashed with is just strict and has a low tolerance level with all the DC. My DC2 has had behaviour points off her and no other teacher. My DC1 eventually just used to take themselves to the intervention suite instead or find a way to come home

my ds is possibly on the spectrum along with his adhd. Has high sense of injustice and likes to follow rules so he does get on with strict teachers but i guess for him it’s more of a need to know where he stands with them and if he feels judged or slightly insecure then that will escalate his behaviour.
Its funny because one of the dislikes of this grammar as opposed to the comp is that all lessons are taught in form and he would prefer to be mixed up however they change forms each year so they do get around to meet others but he is right if you don’t get on with people it’s a bit more difficult to avoid them. It’s a 5 form entry so not really tiny but certainly half the size of the local comp.
I have heard of one case in this grammar from a few years back where the child was waiting for diagnosis of asd but school would not make allowances for him and his behaviour. He eventually left in yr9 and joined a local comp where his mum said the support was not much better but the child is a bit happier. Not sure if it’s a success story or not but that’s the only story i heard relating to this grammar

Defo read 'how not to kill your ADHD child' there's a chapter on that very behaviour as it's a classic adhd trait people know less about. Fairness. Justice. Rules that make sense to them but not ones that don't. ADHD kids can have so many negative comments aimed at them they can snap.
'Stop fidgeting, stop doodling, sit still, stop shouting out answers, sit down, stop talking, stop tapping your pencil, stop gazing out of window getting distracted, stay on task, stop loosing items etc etc etc' Much of this they can't control easily. (Better on meds).
Primary is easier as they are much more active in classrooms & breaks.