How to challenge this secondary schools terrible bullying policy

[theprincessthepea]

My DD started secondary school. It is a decent school, however the comment (from parents) that made me reluctant to send her there was that it has an awful policy towards ongoing bullying.

THE VIDEO
A video was circulated of a girl being beaten outside of the school in their uniform. We (a whatsapp group of parents with children attending the school) were concerned. A member of the group asked the parents of the girl directly what the school is doing about it (as the parents of the girl being bullied were vocal on social media). The parents reply was something like this:

PARENTS RESPONSE
"My daughter has been bullied for 4 years, since year 7. After the video was taken, her bullies bashed her head against the wall and she came home and she was taken to A&E with serious injuries. We have reported to the school over the years and despite them having medical evidence and other evidence they have done nothing"

OUR RESPONSE (AS PARENTS)
When we, as parents in the whatsapp group, who are concerned about the fact that an incident like this can happen for several years and right outside the school gates - we asked the headteacher, have sent emails and the schools response has been: this was a "minor incident" so they do not need to intervene.

As parents we think this is a weak response and want to challenge how they tackle long term bulling.

WHAT CAN WE DO?
What would you expect a school to do in this situation? Is this something to raise with Governors. I know teachers are stretched but an intervention at least!

Interested in hearing from teachers and general tips if a child attends a school with a horrible attitude towards solving bullying. Can we as a group push for change?

I know a few people will comment with an "it's not your business approach" but I would hate to think that our children are unsafe or nobody looks out for our kids anymore because everyone is too busy minding their own business. Resulting in - nothing ever changing.

I would expect the school to cooperate fully with the police investigating the assault and to ensure that the victim and the suspect were never in the same classroom while the police investigation proceeded. This is what our school do.

I would have expected the girl's parents to report to the Police tbh.

And I would expect the parents to make a complaint to the school, following the complaints policy which should be on the school website.

I would expect parents would report to police and lee them take the lead.

What do the police say? Ofsted? Board?
Parents need to escalate beyond the school.

What does the school behaviour policy actually say?

I think ideally the parents would report to the police - but I guess that's up to them and their child. In this circumstance, with it going on for years, I would have, and possibly changed schools.

This makes me mad that it is being batted away by the head - I'm trying to avoid thinking as that poor child's parents. It's unbelievable it's been called a minor incident, and things have been allowed to go on for so long. Some Heads are just cowards and will need to be pushed into action.

So as a group, I would nominate 2-3 people to go in to see the head for a meeting, I'd demand it. Do they have any regular meetings you can attend?

I think you need to be sensitive to what the girl and her parents want in the public domain (I'm not sure how public the assault is) but I guess some options might be, if you get no response:

1. Local press
2. Social media posts can get schools attention
3. Request to see the governors / meeting
4. Can you report to Ofsted?
5. Ask to meet with safeguarding team
6. Standing outside school with placards

Good luck I would push and push.

I don't think we learn anything about the school's actual policy from this. Only how they appear to be dealing (or not dealing) with this particularly incident.

You're effectively concerned with a complaint here, not a policy.

As PPs have said, I'd expect a serious assault like this to be reported to the police by the parents of the child concerned.

If I were you I'd be looking over the school's actual bullying policy and decide if you're happy with that in the first instance.

In my experience of this as a teacher and DSL...

Most schools would say if this happened even one minute outside of school time, it's not their responsibility but if an assault has taken place then they'd advise reporting to the police.

From there, they can build up a case to protect the victim. The assailants being taught in isolation for example.
They need to gather evidence for expulsion and it can take time. A police log and associated paper trail can help speed things up and can be used as the final straw incident.

If it happened in school time, there would be an exclusion and investigation by school. Again parents could (and should imo) involve police.

If I was the parent of the child in question though, I'd genuinely just pull her out of that school and move her somewhere away from those awful bullies asap.

@theprincessthepea I'm a school governor. The school's Anti-Bullying Policy will be on its website. If they did not follow it in this case, or in other cases, then the parent can raise a complaint. If doing so, they should be very specific and follow the school's Complaints Procedure to the letter - that will be on the school's website too.

You, and your group, should be mindful that you have only heard one side of a multi-sided story. If you want to help the parent, advise them as above. Don't turn your Whatsapp group into a reactionary lobbying group. You are outside observers, and don't know all the details. The school cannot discuss them with you, due to Data Protection protocols.

With regard to the pp above who said schools don't care about incidents outside of school, that is not my experience. My school would certainly investigate any incident where a student was in school uniform or travelling between home and school. If you read the school"s Safeguarding Policy (on the website) it should make it clear that they have a duty of care towards their students on and off school premises.

It's harsh to judge a school on what happens outside. Our school comes down hard but in reality it's not their issue. Same as endless social media issues. All schools fight these battles.
Same as vaping. In our area all schools have these issues Inc very expensive ones.

Advise the parent to go to the police. The parent needs to find the anti-bullying policy and if it has not been followed then make a formal complaint. The complaints policy will be on the website.

You shouldn’t be getting involved apart from advising the parent as above. You only know one side of the story of what is likely to be a complex situation. The school can’t tell you much due to data protection.

Any complaint you do make has to be about your DD. You can’t take up cudgels on behalf of someone else because you don’t know the full story and data protection.

You can always apply for any governor vacancy or stand for parent governor election. That’s a way to see what’s really going on and press for change if needed.

This is an appalling and unacceptable response by the school. It is not what good pastoral care looks like.

One of my dc, also a child who had been bullied for years, was twice assaulted outside school.

The first 'outside' assault by a secondary pupil was when my dc was still in primary. It was not a actual beating, but it was physical and very frightening. Dc knew who the older child was. The secondary took our report very seriously and acted upon it immediately.

The second 'outside' assault was when my dd was in secondary and resulted in my dc suffering concussion. A video of the assault was also posted on social media. The school again took the report very seriously and acted upon it immediately. We reported the assault to the police and school were very keen to cooperate with them. The police were less helpful at first, wanting to minimise the situation and shift all responsibility to the school. We were insistent that it be taken seriously by the police, the case was re-assigned to a different officer and he progressed it.

The actions taken by the school were not just punitive for the bullies, but also supportive for my dc.

This definitely needs to be reported to the police.

I'm amazed that any parent would allow their child to be viciously and violently bullied for 4 years without escalating the matter further (police, ofsted etc) and without moving their child to another school.

The school should be willing to discuss their general policy with you, but I doubt that they will share the details of an individual child's experience as that would be a flagrant disregard of GDPR. Consequently, you will only have the parent's version of events, which may or may not be the full story.

The parents should move their child to another school and report to police and ofsted.

It's a secondary school, all the children are over the age of criminal responsibility, I'd ring the police.

What you haven't said is what the actual anti bullying policy is and whether the school applied it or not.

This. Word for word.

Also @theprincessthepea you'll find no school in the country where there is zero bullying. You'll also find most school policies on it are pretty much the same. Ofsted and other authorities advise on the actual wording and the law states what schools can and cannot be involved in. Unfortunately, that does include events outside of school grounds/the school day.

Of course the school should be taking the measures above, supporting the victim and keeping an eye on things in school. But the family do need to realise that that's where the school's legal possibility ends. They would be in deep shit for taking action on a student reported by another parent for doing something not on school premises and not in school time.

The police would and will liaise with the school though. That's where this needs to go.

The whole “if it happened outside of school it’s not the school’s responsibility” thing doesn’t wash. If one of your work colleagues punched you in the face while you’re waiting for the train in the morning you can bet that your HR department would take it very seriously indeed. In my workplace it would likely be summary dismissal or at the very least suspension without pay pending police investigation.

The whole “if it happened outside of school it’s not the school’s responsibility” thing doesn’t wash. If one of your work colleagues punched you in the face while you’re waiting for the train in the morning you can bet that your HR department would take it very seriously indeed. In my workplace it would likely be summary dismissal or at the very least suspension without pay pending police investigation.

I fully agree. I didn't say I agreed with it as a policy because I don't. But in every school I've worked in for the past twenty years, it's been the case that they wash their hands of any responsibility once the bells rings and the kids step out the doors. I also suffered as a child victim of bullying through this sort of policy. "We can only deal with incidents that happen during the school day..."

It's even worse now given that a lot of bullying takes place online outside of school time. It's relentless for victims.

I also agree.
But in the example about the colleagues- imagine colleague A said colleague B punched them. Colleague A has witnesses confirming. Colleague B has witnesses saying it never happened.
The workplace would be unable (legally) to take any action on Colleague B unless (and not even necessarily then) there was police involvement.
That's why the OP needs to go above the school.

As a teacher, I agree, and I agree the school needs to take action. However, I know from experience, it is very difficult for a school to e.g. exclude a pupil for something that happens outside of school time, even if it involves two (or more) students, and means a student feels/is no longer safe at school.

I do think some action needs to be taken to keep the victim safe in school, and the situation needs to be discussed with the perpetrators. As far as possible, the school should try to ensure the video is deleted and not shared, but this is very difficult in itself.

If an incident like this had happened on the school site, during the school day, then I would hope the perpetrator would be facing sanctions up to and including exclusion- but as I say, that's very difficult when it has happened off the school site after the end of the school day.

Regardless of what the students are wearing, or where they go to school, it's an assault, which really does make it a police matter.

Edit: Ultimately, the rules for schools are different to rules in the workplace, because there's a right to an education, but no right to a job. In a workplace, repeated petty theft would also likely lead to dismissal, but it's unlikely to lead to exclusion in a school, for example.

I'm surprised by how many posters have experienced schools not involving themselves in incidents that happen outside of school time and grounds.

Our behaviour team and SLT are constantly dealing with problems that happen in the community, on social media etc. and keep staff informed as necessary. Because once the affected children are reunited under our roof, it's very much our problem!

Those who are saying out of school behaviour is not subject to the discipline policy or sanctions are 100% wrong. See attached. A head can legally exclude or suspend based on behaviour outside of school. It’s a shame posters giving opinions don’t know the law. Point 2 of the latest government Guidance on Exclusion dated 1 Sept 2023 makes this clear. Plus other advice backs this up,

This is possibly assault. A police matter. Or a matter for a formal complaint. It’s up to the parents. Not other parents.

The behaviour and discipline policies must be on the school web site. So read them. However you cannot complain about another child but you can ask how the policies are enacted and you can report the school to Ofsted for not following policy.