How to challenge this secondary schools terrible bullying policy

[theprincessthepea]

My DD started secondary school. It is a decent school, however the comment (from parents) that made me reluctant to send her there was that it has an awful policy towards ongoing bullying.

THE VIDEO
A video was circulated of a girl being beaten outside of the school in their uniform. We (a whatsapp group of parents with children attending the school) were concerned. A member of the group asked the parents of the girl directly what the school is doing about it (as the parents of the girl being bullied were vocal on social media). The parents reply was something like this:

PARENTS RESPONSE
"My daughter has been bullied for 4 years, since year 7. After the video was taken, her bullies bashed her head against the wall and she came home and she was taken to A&E with serious injuries. We have reported to the school over the years and despite them having medical evidence and other evidence they have done nothing"

OUR RESPONSE (AS PARENTS)
When we, as parents in the whatsapp group, who are concerned about the fact that an incident like this can happen for several years and right outside the school gates - we asked the headteacher, have sent emails and the schools response has been: this was a "minor incident" so they do not need to intervene.

As parents we think this is a weak response and want to challenge how they tackle long term bulling.

WHAT CAN WE DO?
What would you expect a school to do in this situation? Is this something to raise with Governors. I know teachers are stretched but an intervention at least!

Interested in hearing from teachers and general tips if a child attends a school with a horrible attitude towards solving bullying. Can we as a group push for change?

I know a few people will comment with an "it's not your business approach" but I would hate to think that our children are unsafe or nobody looks out for our kids anymore because everyone is too busy minding their own business. Resulting in - nothing ever changing.

And Ofsted will tell you to go back to the school and follow the complaints policy. However the OP doesnt have a direct involvement- they are a 3rd party.

If the parents involved are unhappy then they need to use the schools complaints procedure- It will be on the website.

We DO know the law but many schools won't even investigate out of school events until there is a police log which can be submitted as evidence to the LA to back up an expulsion. That's why most of us have said involve the police as a priority.

LEAs often make it unbelieveably difficult for headteachers to expel students.

In my last school, it took months to permanently exclude a pupil who made a credible bomb threat resulting in the school being closed for several days causing massive implications for exams. LEA's are terrified of the legal implications of permanent exclusions and they want to see lots of evidence of how the bullies were supported and given chances by SLT before exclusion is taken as a last resort.

And yes, it's ridiculous and wrong.

And wonderful if it never happens in other schools!

That IS ridiculous All2Well. Glad you don't work there anymore.

Schools that don't deal with serious out-of-school incidents/behaviour are failing in their duty of care to students and staff.

@All2Well You are seriously out of date! Read the legislating. LAs (not been LEAs for ages!) have no role in making decisions on exclusions. None. It’s 100% the head who must follow the law. The legislation makes it clear behaviour outside school can be taken into account. A school must investigate behaviour that might lead the head to exclude. All such behaviour should be investigated. There must be robust reasons to exclude or the governors might not agree. Not the LA. An appeal could be lost too. There are no excuses and parents should use the complaints policy. I’m aware it’s not the poster’s child.

This is a police issue, not a school issue

This is like saying "I got beaten up outside Tescos by Tescos customers, and Tescos won't do anything about it"

Parents of pupils can report non action and not following policies to Ofsted . If, as a group, pupil well being is compromised, parents can complain to Ofsted. The individual parent can use the school complaints procedure. Poor Leadership and management is also reason for a complaint to Ofsted. Not following policy snd Dc being scared of the behaviour of some Dc is grounds for complaint.

none of which is relevant, as this is a police issue, not a school one

teachers are NOT a law enforcement agency

This a stupid analogy, even though, Tesco has the power to ban customers from their premises so a complaint (or several) about violent behaviour could result in such an action.

We've had similiar incidences in our school, the only time something was done was when a video went virtually viral and a local paper then the police picked up on it. The bully was expelled, but her friends carried on and the victim had to leave school. My youngest is bullied because of a disability, the kids doing it are "golden students" and get away with it. Bullying is very difficult to manage when they get older, the kids aren't stupid enough to do anything that can be used as evidence. There is a huge culture of snitches getting ostracised by other kids (or worse).

Different anology -Tesco employee beats another employee up on a night out, off the premises, an investigation finds they were also bullying this member of staff at work. Tesco fires employee - were they right to do so?

The law clearly says behaviour that is bad enough to lead the Head to consider permanent exclusion IS a matter for the school even if it happens outside school. An example would be on school transport. The attack quoted is certainly another case. It’s 100% within the power of the head to consider this as serious enough to warrant PE.

Education law and guidance from the government on exclusions has no connection whatever to Tesco and private businesses not involving children and discipline. Read the law on exclusions - then comment. The law on exclusions applies to schools and duties placed on the head and others The police can be involved but it’s not the case it’s either the police or the school depending on where an attack takes place. The school has every legal right to investigate and take appropriate action on behaviour outside school.

@MorvernBlack This situation at a school has NOTHING to do with Tesco or employee discipline procedures!

However, since you ask, the answer is YES. What happens off the premises if it brings a company into disrepute, plus how serious the behaviour is, can be considered to be gross misconduct leading to dismissal. Bearing up another employee would, in my view, be gross misconduct. Read ACAS guides if you want to know more.

@TizerorFizz I don’t think it’s fair to accuse posters of being ignorant of the law when they have experience of schools refusing to act on incidents that happen outside of school (as I do). While schools do have the right to act on incidents that happen outside of school, many don’t see it as their problem.

And regarding the LA role in permanent exclusion this isn’t quite true is it? The LA has a responsibility to find alternative provision for excluded pupils. If there simply is no alternative provision available (as is the case in my county where all the PRUs are full) the LA will refuse to accept the transfer of a pupil to AP, effectively blocking a school from PE. Our school cannot PE my DS’s assailant for this exact reason. Luckily he never bothers coming to school.

Thank you @BCCoach that's exactly what I was getting at.

The LA (we do sometimes use LEA still at work to avoid confusion as some of the local LAs here have a separate function although of course I'm aware the term changed in relation to legislation) holds the real power.

The Head excludes a pupil. The LA (who's duty it is to find a new place for them) make it impossible for the school by saying there are no places available elsewhere which leads to the parent appealing. 9/10 in my previous workplaces it's the LA who carry out the Independent Review and if the Head doesn't have reams and reams of airtight paperwork the LA overturns the decision.

And then indirectly, usually when 2 or 3 exclusions have actually succesfully managed to happen, but still a major issue...the school finds there's somehow far less funding for the next academic year and cuts (usually to support staff) are forced. Because it's the LA who fund the school and who ultimately have power to be able to massively fuck up a Head's ability to lead a school as they want to, and know they should.

I've lost count of the times I've been in a Monday morning briefing and the Head has said something a long the lines of "Fred in Year 9 has been in trouble again with the police for anti social behaviour, a member of the public complained he was harrassing elderly ladies on the train whilst in school uniform. Combined with the after school assault on Jenny that was going round Snapchat last month and the pressure from parents we need him out. I want everyone on top of him this week. Anything he does wrong, detention, or send him out of class to the Behaviour Unit. Record everything. We need a paper trail. With any luck he'll kick off at one of us and we'll have a last straw incident that the Council will be happy with. I've heard through the grapevine that there is a place that's become available in the PRU so they can't refuse this time but we need to get in there first. I want him out this week
but he'll only be back again by half term if we can't provide strong enough evidence. If he puts a foot wrong, come down on him like a ton of bricks."

That's the reality.

Anyway, I'm out, I can't be doing with petty attacks and want to enjoy a few days time off away from work. I know what I dealt with in 20 years of teaching. And the OP isn't engaging anyway.

The reality is the cuts are not the LA.

The cuts are made by the Conservative government who continue to cut funding TO LA’s.

My LA has £6.2 million to save this year, just in the Children and Young People Directorate. A saving on top of similar amounts year in year.

Education is in crisis.

@TizerorFizz
I didn't say it had, my comment was in reply to someone else who was using it as a flawed analogy.

Exclusions are still nothing to do with the LA! Finding alternative provision is. So much confusion and poor understanding of the law by people who should know it.

Schools do need to be held to account regarding the law regarding exclusions. Heads have control over the decisions. If they don’t make decisions when they are fully entitled to do, they let everyone down. They don’t need and shouldn’t keep making excuses. We do know we have poor leadership in schools though and it leads to poor staff retention and dismay amongst the parents.

What happens is that the school deals with it internally and don't tell ransoms and people who it doesn't concern what they have done or are doing. How do you know they do nothing? We wouldn't tell anyone other than the children concerned what is happening, and then only relevant to them, not the other child. So no, you wouldn't know.

everyone posting here knows the law. What you seem unable to accept is that LAs effectively have the power to block PEs, regardless of whether they have any say in the PE process itself. And they do. Regularly. For reasons that have been explained several times.

They do not. A PE is down to head, governors and independent appeal. LA officers not present at any stage, except maybe as clerk and adviser. School does have to provide work if no pru available. This doesn’t stop a head excluding. They absolutely should to keep other DC safe.

@TizerorFizz so everyone posting here who has experience of schools being unable to PE due to being blocked by LA because of lack of AP is imagining it?

No. But they are experiencing is dire school leadership and undue interference. Look at the law. What schools can do and what they are required to do. It’s vital leadership flies the law. Heads can exclude. They have some obligations post exclusion. Nowhere is it explicit that LAs make the decision to exclude. It is a decision for the head alone. That they won’t do it is probably more about running from ofsted and being a poor leader. I think teachers know what schools are well led. Do you honestly think heads in strict schools don’t exclude? They would. So experience and believing what you are told is no substitute for knowledge of the law. Many heads exclude to protect staff and other dc. A head that doesn’t and makes excuses should be called out.