What happened to all the hymns?

[Notlaughingalot]

I clearly remember a lot of the hymn we used to sing in assembly.

How great thou art
For those in peril on the sea
Lord of the dance
Morning has broken
Love divine all loves excelling

And for the leavers
One more step along the world I go

For coming in to assembly and for leaving (in silent, orderly rows of course!) the music teacher played classical piano tunes from Chopin, Mendelssohn (Songs without words) and Beethoven.

I do think that today's children are missing out. Or is it just me, and really, today's schools are much better than in the past?

@mathanxiety

There is a huge amount of sneering about 'fictional beings' on this thread. The term 'fictional beings' is a sneer."

Is it? I don't understand why.

Incidentally- how do traditional hymns reflect women's experience except as mothers? And mothers in a very limited way.

I had to sing hyms up until 16. Didn’t enjoy them at all and I hate singing. It always felt awkward.

The only hymn that was slightly fun was Shine Jesus Shine. But as an atheist, I believe Jesus was a nutter, so I’d also quite happily live without that.

Tbh I also found most school assemblies boring as hell. Don’t know if the content has been revamped since I was at school.

I’m the atheist atheist that ever atheised but I can still belt out a variety of hymns at the drop of a hat. Love the hymns at a wedding (though I don’t pray) because I love a communal singalong.

All things bright and beautiful is another one with amazing imagery

I’m not religious but work in a Catholic school. The hymns and communal singing are one of my favourite things about it. It totally normalises communal singing, which I find generally good for the soul. No reason why other schools couldn’t have communal singing without the religious bit. I do love a good hymn… my absolute favourite is the advent hymn “O come, O come Emmanuel” but I also have a soft spot for “Be still for the presence of the Lord” and “As I kneel before you”.

Ash Wednesday falls in half term next year and I’m sad that this means I’ll miss the annual performance of “At the foot of the cross” that normally happens at the school’s Ash Wednesday Mass.

Well, no-one is saying that you only have to learn hymns. Marian imagery was for centuries one of the only forms of cultural representation of women, though. Does that make it any worse than Taylor Swift’s Love Story, which is as cliched an idea of femininity as you can get? (Often, the representation of women in the Christian tradition is far weirder and more subversive than many think).

For me, it’s worth the insight into a form of cultural life not dominated by commercial market interests. We live in a totally individualistic, commercial, market-driven, money-driven society. That’s not in itself better - and arguably might be in some aspects worse - than a society which retains a strong element of communal spiritual experience. In any case, it might be that we ought to have a wide cultural appreciation of lots of things, of which hymns might only offer one part. We might well be interested in the spiritual and musical traditions of other religious traditions, too - all to the good. But I think it’s pretty daft to believe that commercial pop music is somehow freer from dominant social ideas than traditional hymns are. Perhaps we should get the kids in primary all singing along to Blurred Lines or Come On Eileen 😂

The term 'fictional beings' is not a sneer, even if you keep calling it one, it's how many people see the idea of a (male) god figure that we are supposed to worship adoringly. Hymns were written as a form of worship, no matter how much someone says they 'just like the words' or 'don't understand the words' or 'just like the tune' or 'just like the tradition'. It's ok to like hymns for these reasons, but it's not OK to ignore that they are primarily worship songs, or to expect children of other faiths (or none) to blindly sing them at school.
As for '99.999%' songs 'being 'about heterosexual relationships', where is this statistic from? I agree that there are a lot of love songs out there, but a good love song can be appreciated by anyone feeling love (or feelings about love) even if they are not in the same relationship situation as the person who penned it! There are also a wealth of songs out there which are not about romantic relationships, many of which I listen to regularly. There are also lots of protest/political/anti-war songs out there, penned as a rebellion against control.

I can't shell broad beans without singing "Broad beans are sleeping in a blanket bed".

I'm glad that the singing of hymns is dying out. They tend to present one particular viewpoint as fact. What about pupils with other religions or none? A pagan friend of mine had great difficulty getting her DCs primary school to accept that as a valid belief. Christian hymns simply are not relevant to many children unless as a wider offering of "what some people believe".

However, our children would benefit from hearing secular music from a great many sources. I remember doing art at junior school while listening to some of Holst's planets. At secondary school there was always music on in the needlework and cookery rooms, Mozart, Schubert etc. Nowadays there is huge scope for a wider repertoire, perhaps helped by asking pupils or their families to share music which is meaningful to them.

The term 'fictional beings' is not a sneer, even if you keep calling it one, it's how many people see the idea of a (male) god figure that we are supposed to worship adoringly.

It's an opinion on the (male) God figure, and should come with "IMO". Otherwise you are sneering.

As for '99.999%' songs 'being 'about heterosexual relationships', where is this statistic from? I agree that there are a lot of love songs out there, but a good love song can be appreciated by anyone feeling love (or feelings about love) even if they are not in the same relationship situation as the person who penned it!

Lol. So nobody who is LGBTQ was ever justified in feeling marginalised by the music scene...

There are also a wealth of songs out there which are not about romantic relationships, many of which I listen to regularly. There are also lots of protest/political/anti-war songs out there, penned as a rebellion against control.

Don't you get bored listening to all fifteen of them?

@CurlewKate

If you're interested, you could listen to the Magnificat ('My Soul Magnifies the Lord" Luke 1:46-55, especially any Russian Orthodox chanted version.

Fwiw, this is quite a subversive song, @Allofthisisasimulation

I'm not religious at all but have always loved singing. I grew up singing hymns every day in school assembly and still know and love them now. DD14 knows not a single hymn and in a similar vein has no idea what The Lords Prayer is. It feels quite sad that these have been phased out.

I've already explained why it isn't 'sneering'. You deciding you think it is doesn't make it so.

About as bored as I get reading your made up 'statistics'.

@RedVanYellowVan "I can't shell broad beans without singing "Broad beans are sleeping in a blanket bed".

"Blankety", surely??

Most of the music they sing in primary assemblies now is enough to put anyone off singing for life. Dull, bland nothingness.

It's because of funding, non musical people in charge who don't get it and non musical parents who don't know what their kids are missing out on. It should not just be hymns but music that is well composed for communal singing including hymns, and communal traditional songs form other cultures even in other languages, there is so very much out there. Most music teacher don't play the piano anymore either so the kids just get a backing track from YouTube. So boring,

The rich man in his castle,
The poor man at his gate,
God made them, high or lowly,
And ordered their estate.

A perfect example of what we could well do without.

Your wish has been granted. It was knocked out of English Hymnal in 1906 and A&M in 1950 but hadn't been sung for decades before that.

I had never heard of the verse you quoted and it was not in songs of praise hymn book

I was thinking of the descriptions of nature