What happened to all the hymns?

[Notlaughingalot]

I clearly remember a lot of the hymn we used to sing in assembly.

How great thou art
For those in peril on the sea
Lord of the dance
Morning has broken
Love divine all loves excelling

And for the leavers
One more step along the world I go

For coming in to assembly and for leaving (in silent, orderly rows of course!) the music teacher played classical piano tunes from Chopin, Mendelssohn (Songs without words) and Beethoven.

I do think that today's children are missing out. Or is it just me, and really, today's schools are much better than in the past?

That depends on your era @Whataretheodds I was in school from 1969 to 1982 and very much sang the older style of hymns. I'm very grateful to have been given that heritage and agree with the pp who pointed out that having been exposed to all of that makes it so much easier to understand and interpret a significant amount of literature, art, history and even politics.

However, I know time moves on. I just hope it doesn't mean we dumb things down. I didn't understand the meaning of everything I sang in primary school hymns but being exposed to a wider range of imagery and vocabulary is something I really appreciate.

Depends on location I presume. Lots of schools do still do this. I imagine if the school has money for a music teacher that can play them and time in the timetable to teach them and the patience of a saint to deal with the backlash, they sing them.

I love singing hymns even to this day. I am not religious but grew up doing Sunday school and church. They are great songs to belt out whether you can sing or not. I also like jazz, rock and indie. It's a genre.
At primary school we had hymns in every assembly

We're going to hit problems with church weddings and funerals before long. At the moment, people often have "assembly favourites" because there's a fair chance people will know them, but I'm not sure how much longer that will continue. Somebody's written wedding-appropriate words to "I vow to thee my country", and I think adapting well-known tunes may be the solution.

My atheist children know a lot of hymns because they were both in choirs. Not shoe thing I'd want in schools which should be accommodating to all faiths and none.

I grew up in the 80s/90s, and we only had hymns at primary school. We, like most children, would spice them up with alternate lyrics, and drive the music teacher nuts. Lord of the Chimpanzee, Piss, Perfect Piss, and so on.

I started to feel uncomfortable with the Christian hymns when I was about 9, and always found a bunch of them to be dreary and boring. The secular ones were always much bouncier (Milk Bottle Tops and Paper Bags, anyone?).

There are many beautiful hymns out there - many very rousing - and it is noticeable our children have had less exposure to them but even when we were kids pop sons and folk songs were also in the mix - it just seems to be more pop songs now apparently as it's assumed the kids won't be interested otherwise.

I did think it a low point at DC primary years ago when they had young kids singing Fairly take of New York in Christmas concert.

Mine sing hymns every day at school and I love it when I hear them singing them - usually in the bath...even though the words are usually outrageously wrong!

I agree with you, OP. I think singing well-known songs such as hymns, en masse, is a wonderful, almost transcendental experience and it's such a shame most children don't experience this regularly now (apart from taking part in Young Voices, if they're lucky). These hymns were part of our culture and heritage, a golden thread running through the generations that bound us together. Until recently, if one of these favourite hymns were played at a school ceremony, church, a wedding or funeral, you could have guaranteed that almost everybody there would know it well and be able to participate. We've lost that now and somehow, in the name of being more inclusive, an increasingly large percentage of people are excluded from feeling fully part of these occasions. It's a great pity.

@asterel you haven't listened to much Taylor Swift, have you? She tackles male privilege, misogyny, hypocrisy, domestic violence, homophobia- the list is long. And yes, she also writes fluffy pop songs, but there's so much more to her than that.

Personally I think music needs to be given more time in school. Not just hymns and classical, but also music from different cultures, metal, rock, jazz, the lot.

@pointythings that's slightly beside the point tough. Hymns are written to be sung with other people. TS's music not so much. It's a totally different experience. Also, I'm not sure how transcending singing songs about male privilege, misogyny, hypocrisy, domestic violence, homophobia in assembly would be for kids.

We sung gyms all the way through primary school can honestly say never made the connection between hymns and religion

I am not a Taylor Swift fan, but at least her songs don't advocate adoration or servitude toward a fictional character. I agree that children should be exposed to a variety of music in schools, and in the 21st century we definitely have more to offer than hymns!

Singing is wonderful. Hymns in a state school less so.

I love hymns as they remind me of my (very churchy granny)! She was such a sweet lady. Her die hard atheist daughter (my aunt) still goes to her church sometimes just in her memory. I think it's fine to like hymns even if you aren't a believer. I'm pretty agnostic but there's definitely something about singing hymns.

My kids go to Catholic school due to Catholic dh. We aren't practicing but I will go and watch whatever they do in church

@OboBoss it's about enjoying all kinds of music. This nostalgia for hymns is just weird - if you want things to sing together, there are so many other options available. The point was that one poster on this thread dismissed TS as fluff without value - that is what I was arguing with.

I sang all kinds of things at primary school, and very few of them were religious in nature. Singing is absolutely a positive thing - one of my DC was in his uni choir last year and will be again when he goes back next year - but it is simply not the case that one type of music is more inherently worthy or suitable than another.

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My youngest child's primary school has prayers and hymns in assembly and it's not a church school. I like that they do this

I'm against religion in schools generally but I have to confess to a bit of nostalgia re hymns.

Jesus Loves Me, (yes I know, for the Bible tells me so).
Jesus Bids Us Shine (with a pure clear light, like a little candle in the night)
are 2 of my favourites from primary school.
Belting out Onward Christian Soldiers or Stand up, stand up for Jesus can really set you up for the day.

Do schools still have a church service before the end of term? We never felt "free" for the holidays till we'd "Bin tae Kirk", or was that just Scotland?

@bellsbuss "My youngest child's primary school has prayers and hymns in assembly and it's not a church school. I like that they do this"

How do you think non Christians feel about it? I'm assuming it's not a private school.

I’ve listened to plenty of Taylor Swift; but it’s pop music. Nice, well written pop music, pop music with some lyrics about issues, but ultimately pop music. Kids can hear pop music in any shop or on any Tiktok video. And sure, there are a fair few turgid hymns out there that have rightly descended into obscurity.

But hymns are actually a communal vernacular culture that was for centuries a way of interpreting religious belief and connecting with some of the greatest literature of our history, from Milton and Blake to the present. They’re a rich resource of global spiritual and historical community religion and experience, from the development of free churches in the seventeenth century, to black gospel music of slavery. They were often written by quite ordinary people, not for money; and often the only access many communities had to poetry, music and art, especially before widespread literacy - and this remains the same today in lots of parts of the world, such as large parts of Africa and South America.

I’m not religious myself, but the access and insight into forms of deep spiritual experience (and historical understanding of religious belief and cultural history) offered by the hymnal tradition is unparalleled. I appreciate Taylor Swift, but she’s selling a disposable commercial product. It’s decent pop music, sure, as pop music goes, but hardly the same.

Same exact era, same takeaway.

How is the vast majority of popular music not a form of control?

It's 99.999% songs about heterosexual relationships for starters, and there are precious few songs about the experience of women in this life on this earth that don't include men

There is a huge amount of sneering about 'fictional beings' on this thread. The term 'fictional beings' is a sneer.

I didn't grow up singing hymns and have managed to take in the cultural underpinnings of art, music, architecture and politics. So have my DC. There are other ways.

@asterel "I’m not religious myself, but the access and insight into forms of deep spiritual experience (and historical understanding of religious belief and cultural history) offered by the hymnal tradition is unparalleled."

If you are from the Christian tradition.