Where in London is the best place to live for grammar options (boys and girls) and good state school fall back options.

[TuttleTree]

Please help! We are house hunting and torn between London and Chelmsford. Ideally, we would like to stay in London for work, travel, culture, things going on. Etc etc all the usual. However fully aware that as kids are involved we have to prioritise in the right way.

We live in East London at the moment and have great grammar options but not good state options. Feel like with Chelmsford there might be some good state back ups there? But before we do anything drastic and leave the big smoke, wondering where else in London we could go that have the option of both.

I am not sure, sorry. Just checked journey times for Monday morning at rush hour from Ealing Fields to arrive by 8.30am though and the 65 bus seems to take just over an hour, while car is apparently 25-50 minutes. It's 7 miles according to Google Maps.

This is a long commute by public transport but many children in London do similar commutes and manage OK.

And what is wrong with Mossbourne Academy if you want a pushy school?

Most grammars in and around London are single sex. Bexley grammars are super selective if you are not in distance (top 180 can pick any of the schools). Tonbridge still has a few superselective places. Tiffin, Barney, Bromley all superselective.

If you want co-Ed and a London vibe choose a strong comprehensive with a grammar stream.

Highams Park maybe? Used to be good and in area for Woodford. Not sure if it still is though.

@Promwasgreat Slightly out of area for us in chingford....

Grammar schools are state schools

...And here I come where I wonder whether to give my son to Catholic school within 40 min distance and two buses 😆...

@TuttleTree eldest is at Latymer - I think E4 is in catchment and if you have a girl Woodford County High. Not sure if there is an equivalent to Woodford for boys. Latymer is also a bit of a lottery as it's pretty competitive so not one you want to bank on.

You're right that E17 secondaries wouldn't generally stretch to E4, most of them have a catchment that is less than a mile, apart from the Catholic school which I assume is on religious attendance.

If you live in catchment for Graveney and get a catchment place your child will still be in the extension classes if their scores / results are high enough. Just like being out in top sets in Dunraven / Charter / Kingsdale etc.

You could move into catchment
of any of these schools (except Kingsdale, lottery) and know you had a good comp option, and also and try for Sutton grammars, Graveney selective places, Kingsdale Lottery / scholarship place, Chestnut Grove, Grey Coats, scholarship place etc.

The principle I am advocating is prioritise good comprehensive, with selective (or other) opportunities to try for within reach.

But personally I wouldn’t bother with grammar if I had a good comprehensive on my doorstep.

Yeah, I have adult friends who went to Latymer (2 got in on music excellence, 1 just went to their sixth form). I've heard a lot about it but its no doubt changed a lot in the last 25 years or so... How does your eldest find it? Woodford may be option for my DD, the boys equivalent for Woodford is Ilford County. Not sure how much they are "super selective" though. Although the "super selctiveness" of the schools doesnt bother me too much as I went to Oxford so feel like anything is possible! Feel like maybe if we shot for latymer we would also shoot for Ilford county? Bit worried about too much testing and exam prep for different boards but havent looked into all of that too much. Also from what I'm reading here, it seems that all the london grammars are more competitive than the out of london grammars... leads me to believe that maybe we shoot for the essex ones 🤔

@EggInANest I completely understand what you are saying. I just don't think it's that simple, if your in the catchment for Graveney you won't be in the catchment for Dunraven. It may or may not be a good thing to attend a school with a grammar like stream & personally I would put Graveney leaps ahead of Dunraven. And if in the catchment for Graveney you wouldn't be in the catchment for Tiffin & would have a long journey to the Sutton grammars. Of course some of the Sutton grammars do give priority to particular postcodes so you could move to those if that's what you wanted. London secondary schools are quite complicated & giving yourself the most options is the best thing but not always the easiest.

...And here I come where I wonder whether to give my son to Catholic school within 40 min distance and two buses

I did a 50 min journey as did my siblings, it was fine & quite normal for London.

@bopbey I know the catchments don’t overlap! I’m saying you only need to be in catchment for one decent comp, and some other additional options to try for if that is your preference.

And having had Dc In both Graveney and Dunraven I would not put Graveney streets ahead. As it happens. For a variety of reasons.

But the OP is not moving to S London , so not relevant to the thread.

OP: super selective means selective of the top scores, irrespective of distance. So competing with the brightest kids from miles around.

Selective in a grammar area like Kent means whatever overall % go to grammar. Or otherwise within a geographical area.

Two buses and 40 minutes sounds perfectly manageable to me. But then I did an hour's commute each way from 11-18. I didn't mind at all.

Do you mind saying which outstanding comprehensive?

My son is unlikely to trouble the selective schools

@TuttleTree personally go with a good comp

At my sons redbridge primary (4 form entry) nobody got into grammar. My son is top 3% (got 116 plus all CATs) and wasnt high enough to get in. Hes gold on UK Maths Challenge

I have several older kids and dont know anyone who has ever passed grammars in Redbridge.

Worth mentioning they are 95% South Indian and muslim/ hindu intake. My son was one of only two white boys at the open day, which shocked him.

Unless your kids are top 1% dont bother.

No it wouldn't, lots of kids in Walthamstow go to Woodford County and Ilford County. They are less selective than Latymer (or QE) snd are often chosen because they are single sex.

Sounds like I need to find out who is tutoring that 95%! 😂 Must be some good tutors within the south indian, muslim and hindu community for them to dominate so much

Why do you want a school that requires intensive tutoring to get in?
I just find this whole thing very bizarre. It's no reflection on the actual school, it's its perceived desirability and attractiveness.
What happens if your children have special educational needs?

I did a 50 minute journey to my grammar school in Kent, back in the day.

It isn’t about the “tutor” - it is the culture of expecting your DC to 2-3 hours homework/extra work a night. Why would you want that?

The white Brit middle class equivalent - buy in a Boden catchment of terraced houses, go to church, or game the system via eg music/language aptitude tests for the top ACADEMY comps. Just look at their criteria online on their admissions pages - if you have a degree from Oxford, use it! And why would you need a tutor anyway if you have such a degree!!!

I think in part it is self-selecting (i.e. children from these backgrounds are more likely to sit the test and put it as their first choice school).

Most of the children who attend the girls grammar travel in from other parts of Redbridge.

For commuting time, it is not just total time that matters, how volatile, comfortable and accessible of the commute method is also worth considering.

More than 50 mins commute time with bus change in between is generally not ideal, you probably want less time, less change and avoid less congestion route.

Also if the kids has before and after school time activities, you want to have similar safe commute options too.

My children do not have SEN. For any SEN children I think that would be a separate consideration and a separate post where other types of factors in a school will be more important.

If you don't agree with opting for a grammar, or if you are confused about the why then you are probably reading the wrong thread.

Whether the school is any good is also a separate discussion but the benefit of the grammar predominantly lies in the type of children your own children will be mixing with, what types of ambitions they have, how focused they are in class, how much they work hard/want to learn and do their best. These are the qualities that most parents would like for their children to be around. Hope that clarifies!

the type of children your own children will be mixing with, what types of ambitions they have, how focused they are in class, how much they work hard/want to learn and do their best

TBH you don't need to be in a Grammar school to have all that in London. Some Grammar schools are OTT in such aspect and do more damage than good for the childrens education development.