Where in London is the best place to live for grammar options (boys and girls) and good state school fall back options.

[TuttleTree]

Please help! We are house hunting and torn between London and Chelmsford. Ideally, we would like to stay in London for work, travel, culture, things going on. Etc etc all the usual. However fully aware that as kids are involved we have to prioritise in the right way.

We live in East London at the moment and have great grammar options but not good state options. Feel like with Chelmsford there might be some good state back ups there? But before we do anything drastic and leave the big smoke, wondering where else in London we could go that have the option of both.

Grammar Schools often ruin the local non-selective schools. I would go for the good comprehensive in the right area of London

Sutton (Greater London) has grammars and some excellent comprehensives, both single sex and mixed. Glenthorne, greenshaw and Cheam high were all state options we looked at

Bromley.

Bromley. Good private, grammar and comprehensive schools.

Worcester Park. You will be in catchment for Tiffins but also Suttons.

But to be completely honest... Do you have that academic children that they will get in? It is not only about location where you live. Thousands of children just didn't pass Sutton exam first stage.

Bromley.

Barnet

Exactly. Which is why many people (including me) are opposed to grammar schools.

What about Ealing? Excellent comps (Ealing fields, elthorne etc) & if you're keen for grammar it's still in range for Tiffin

Grammars are state schools (apart from the few independents that have “grammar” in the name. You mean selective and comprehensive I take it, or are you considering independent fee paying schools?

Areas with a predominantly selective system are fine if your kids get in to the selectives. If not, they will probably do worse than they would have done in a non-selective area.

selectives give bright children a marginal shove up in terms of performance.

what do you want for your kids? What does a good education look like? Start there and work backwards.

most London boroughs have good options for non-selective. London fringe a bit more problematic.. Kent in particular.

Move to Camden, great comprehensive options.

This isn't really true in London unless you live in an 11plus area in the edge of the city (Essex? Kent? Not sure of others)

There are a handful of grammar schools here in North London but they are so super-selective and take from such a wide catchment that the other local schools (all comprehensives) are not really affected.
Queen Elizabeth Boys School, Henrietta Barnett (girls) and St Michaels (Catholic girls) in LB Barnet and Latymer School (mixed) in LB Enfield all select on academic ability rather than distance or anything else. I can't think of any others, but these are all traditional grammars within a few miles of each other.

Dame Alice Owen School (Potters Bar and partially selective; it's a great school) serves Barnet / Enfield too (check the eligible catchment carefully, as it's specific postcodes). It also takes a number of children from LB Islington for historical reasons so that's worth considering too, if you live in Islington.

Just make sure you have a decent comp within reach too, as your backup, in case the above options don't work out.

We're in Greenwich (Eltham) but close to Bexley border so DS has sat 11+ for Bexley Grammars but the Greenwich secondary options near us are good too.

Bromley, Worcester Park, New Malden, Cheam helps if you're open to faith options.

I ve heard of tiffin. Don't know much about it but have the impression it's impossible to get in? I support they're all hard to get into though aren't they 🤔

Thanks this is all super helpful

Thanks this is all super helpful

Bromley - if you get in the 'golden triangle' of catchment areas you will have access to super-selective (St Olaves and Newstead Woods), the grammars in Bexley and Kent and excellent comprehensives (Bullers Wood Girls and Bullers Wood Boys).

Ok, interesting. How many Bexley grammars are there? How many tests did she have to sit?

Chelmsford!! The grammar CCHS is one of the top in the country. Then the other grammars in commute distance Southend & Westcliff are also top schools in the country. But you still have some of the best schools to fall back on: Moulsham, high achieving state, good kids. Brentwood Ursuline competed with grammars and is amazing.

also a nice well to do area

for Essex there’s one exam only or two for a girl (CCHS has its own). It’s a much better exam board than the others and whilst difficult, is more reflective of the learning to come

London is teeming with good comprehensives. Grammar schools results generally simply reflect the ability of the selected intake. Find a good comprehensive, streamed and set, and your Dc will meet their potential.

In S London you could look at the Charter schools, Dunraven, Kingsdale, Graveney. For example.

Yeah, before you decide to make house buying decisions based on selective education, make sure you have done proper research on just how good they actually are.

getting good results if all your students enter with good results and very low levels of disadvantage isn’t that impressive. Getting good results with high levels of disadvantage, social issues, and a mixed intake in terms of attainment is really hard and much more impressive.

Btw don't kid yourself on the selection process. 11 plus is very very competitive in Bromley and Sutton. Stressful for everyone involved.

My understanding is that grammar schools in London are VERY selective and only take something like the top 2% of pupils. Your kid will need to be very bright and you will have to put real effort into them in, and even with a bright kid and lots of effort there are high odds that you won’t succeed. I would look for an area with good comprehensive schools.