Private school to ditch GCSEs, write own exams

[noblegiraffe]

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/education/gcses-private-schools-london-qualification-latymer-school-b1106686.html

Not entirely sure what to make of this. Latymer Upper (I'm not really up on private schools so don't know how fancy it is) is planning to ditch GCSEs and create its own assessments to 'free up teaching time'.

I guess if it's a super-selective type school they'd be expecting all the kids to go onto A-levels anyway so aren't worried about losing GCSEs, but what of kids who want to go elsewhere? How recognised would their portfolio be?

Also, we know from covid just how good some private schools are at marking their own homework so how would anyone know if standards were being maintained?

I'm surprised that a school has enough staffing capacity to set up its own exam system tbh.

Can you post a link- it doesn't seem to be necessary for any PGCE courses except the fast track scheme.

https://getintoteaching.education.gov.uk/is-teaching-right-for-me

The very first primary PGCE course that came up in a google search

Entry Requirements

• To hold a first degree of a United Kingdom higher education institution or equivalent qualification.

For example Bachelor of Arts (BA), Bachelor of science (BSc) etc. or similar . They are sometimes known as 'undergraduate' or 'first' degrees.

• To have achieved a standard equivalent to a grade 4 (previously Grade C) in the GCSE examinations in English, Mathematics and Science (Biology, Chemistry, Physics or Combined Science).
• To have taken part in a rigorous selection process designed to assess your readiness to train to teach.

Please note we do NOT accept GCSE Short Courses, GCSE English Literature, GCSE Equivalent Tests from other institutions or organisations, Key Skills Level 2 or Functional Skills Level 2.

From gov.uk

Entry requirements

• 5 GCSEs at grades 9 to 4 (A* to C), or equivalent, including English, maths and science
• 2 to 3 A levels, or equivalent, for a degree
• a degree in any subject for a postgraduate course

The GCSE system needs reform - there is no need for high stakes testing at 16 when the school leaving age is 18.

Assuming that the kids pootle along in a uniformly academic fashion towards A-levels and then uni, this is possibly true (which I guess Latymer pupils generally do). However, most pupils don't do this. Loads of kids from my school don't leave education, but they do leave school. They head off to colleges and apprenticeships and they need their results from school in an easily understandable way for those new providers to decide whether they are suitable candidates.

Thanks for the links- I was looking up PGCE courses.
Although my DCs primary was full of teachers from abroad so I'm guessing they didn't have GCSEs!
My friend has sent me the detailed LU info behind it all. There has been lots of consultations with UCAS, Universities etc so I think they've thought through most scenarios.

Please note we do NOT accept GCSE Short Courses, GCSE English Literature, GCSE Equivalent Tests from other institutions or organisations, Key Skills Level 2 or Functional Skills Level 2.

Hmmm. So those kids would need to sit GCSE science at a later date.

Or maybe the assumption is that their kids are too good to be primary teachers.

And that's only Wolverhampton Uni Noble so not a prestigious RG one. They have always trained a lot of teahchers.

The first lot of kids are not going to be applying to university for another 10 years or so so who knows how things will have changed by then.

If it were me in charge of the format, but it's not, I would take the good bits from the GCSE curriculum to test the pupils on and dump all the rubbish. Then add in my own less rigid teaching and questions. So a mixture of both worlds.
Latymer Upper is already oversubscribed. I can't see that changing.

Even the guy who created them says they're redundant :
https://www.tes.com/magazine/archive/lord-baker-gcses-now-redundant

"Calls for a 14-19 “national baccalaureate”, combining academic and vocational subjects, are growing louder."
https://feweek.co.uk/its-a-delicate-business-this-assessment-reform/

"it is reasonable to conclude that the current approach of setting ‘school-leaving qualifications’ at age 16 is no longer required. The decision to maintain a full suite of national examinations at 16 also puts England at odds with most other developed nations"
https://www.edsk.org/publications/reassessing-the-future-part-1/

And then there's the Tomlinson review, which concluded - nearly 20 years ago - that the GCSE / A level system was already outdated, even in 2004.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4299151.stm

This brings back memories! Decades ago the department I worked in insisted we write our own preliminary exams for Standard Grade and Higher (Scotland). It took hours of work! I know it isn't the same thing as OP but we were rigorous in checking the type of questions, the number of questions, how much each question was worth and then writing the answer scheme! We spent forever discussing suitable texts too for the specific levels. It was awful simply because it was on top of everything else.

Presenting me with the opinion of people far removed from the current situation in schools and expecting me to be interested in it is rather like suggesting that I listen to Gove's opinion because he introduced the 9-1 GCSEs!

My considered opinion to those waffling on about ditching GCSEs from their ivory towers is 'get in the sea'. The education system in crisis, schools are literally collapsing, we're running out of teachers and basically the system cannot withstand yet another massive curriculum and examination overhaul.

I will repeat what I said earlier, the age of leaving education may be 18, but the age of leaving school for a lot of children remains at 16. Unless they want to mess with that too?

Latymer Upper is one of the most over subscribed and selective private schools in London. I imagine very few of those offered a place turn it down (other than for St Pauls). I would imagine that there is a massive frustration that GCSEs require teaching to the test (and at LU its probably teaching to 11/12/13 tests as the pupils are so very bright they'll be taking strings of GCSEs) rather than pursuing a more interesting and academically stimulating curriculum that would run into A levels/IB etc.

I would expect that lots of their pupils take a gap year unless going on to read a subject like maths where its frowned on so UCAS is unlikely to be a problem as they'll apply grades in hand. Lots will be looking to Oxbridge/med school/maths at COWI where they may well have to do some form of aptitude test - STEP/LNat/BMAT/UCAT etc so again the lack of GCSEs may well be less of an issue. Not supposition as 2023 leavers destinations show 14 to Warwick, 21 Oxbridge, 14 Durham 8 Imperial and 19 Bristol......

Although the article doesn't say so it might well be that if they scrap GCSEs the pupils then end up taking more than 4 A levels so the UCAS points will be even higher. Its not particularly new as I remember when AS levels were brought in the High Mistress at St Pauls girls mooted getting her girls to sit a minimal number of GCSEs in Year 10 and then sit a load of ASs instead of GCSEs in Year 11 as that would provide a better academic curriculum.

Lots of LU students/parents turn St Paul's down because they want a coed environment

This will stop pupils transferring out at Sixth form based on GCSEs.
They most probably can do A levels earlier and increase numbers of A levels. MFL, especially if bilingual in Year 9, DT and Arts, Music earlier etc. So they could come out with 6 to 8 A levels.
Check out their 11+ papers samples, some Maths questions are at GCSEs level for Year 6.
Pupils going to US, Canada, European universities will be fine.

The cynic in me wonders if their GCSE results have slipped a bit, or they have a lot of people leaving for sixth form elsewhere
I hadn't thought about this.

I'd understand wanting to opt out of GCSEs though. In my subject the marking has been horrendous this year.

@LolaSmiles it definitely won't be their results. It's a very academic school. If anything it'll be their marketing team saying the school is 'forward thinking' and 'dynamic'. Or whatever other catchphrase they want.

Good news. Hopefully this will stimulate some general discussion about education and assessment.

So those kids would need to sit GCSE science at a later date.

Do you seriously think this could be a problem if they later decide to pursue teaching profession?

Well yes, they’ll need a qualification they don’t have so would need to arrange, prepare for, sit and pay for the exams.

That's LU off my list then. I don't want DS to be a guinea pig for some new assessment that universities may struggle to benchmark against.

@LolaSmiles it definitely won't be their results. It's a very academic school. If anything it'll be their marketing team saying the school is 'forward thinking' and 'dynamic'. Or whatever other catchphrase they want
I see. I'm rather ignorant about the private system on the whole other than anecdotal accounts of friends at smaller local ones.

Do you think such a very academic, and I'm guessing expensive, school would find enough parents who'd pay a small fortune to not leave with recognised qualifications? Or is it that those families are likely to have enough money that they'd put their children in for whatever GCSEs they needed with tutors?

I work at a university. As well as A level/ucas points we specify maths, English and science gcse. A school certificate won’t count.

For university applications, students do not usually need to meet the maths or science GCSE requirements if they have studied a relevant subject at a higher level. So it is really pointless to think this will affect their university chances (at least for those top university the LU is targeting).