What Set for y7 did your dc go into for what sats result?

[SatsvsTA]

Wondering what set dc went into for y7 relating to sats results
And whether you think it was sats results or primary teacher opinion
Dd has gone into set 4/5 with sats result 113

Does work slowly though so less primary classwork done. Has sped up a bit by sats time.
Got exceeding (first time) on report

At my secondary school, setting has nothing whatsoever to do with SATS results and there is no input from primary school.

At first they are taught in mixed-ability classes and they are set once we know how they are getting on - measured by our ownassessments.

Sets don't usually have anything to do with SATS. Schools do their own assessments and if they do set in Y7, they normally teach everyone the same thing for the first half term and assess at the end. Lots of movement after that.
My DD didn't 'pass' sats at all, and ended up in various sets depending on subjects. Eg set 3 English but set 5 maths.

DD didn't do Sat's due to covid but went straight into Set 1, I'm guessing because of teacher grades instead for her cohort.

The school I worked at used Sat's as a general and very loose guide so it was expected (providing nothing massive changed and they stayed on that flight path) students who got 115-120 would have higher learning potential/ top set / higher tier GCSE, students who got 80-95 would be in a nurture group, intervention, foundation paper or functional skills and those in between floated between the middle groups. There was always room for movement between groups depending on in year assessment grades.

When students are put into groups it's not always about their grades, social mix and sex balance are also taken into account along with individual needs of students.

A bright but shy pupil might do better as the top of a lower set where they can build confidence and go at slightly slower pace than being in a group full of very confident chatty students where they get lost in the background. They might then move up in a future year.

If setting is based purely off SATS results then a child getting 113 (in what?) would not be in set 4/5 unless this is an extremely academic school.

DD's school only sets in maths. DD was put in set 2 of 9 for maths despite a SATS score of 104 because the school conducted their own internal tests and (correctly) worked out that her SATS result did not reflect her actual ability.

Our school was small so English and Maths were scheduled on the curriculum back to back.

So if you were in set 1-3 for English, you would be for Maths too. Sets 4 - 6 for English, same for Maths.

I've no idea how they worked out who went into what set. It was a PITA for our severely dyslexic son who was probably set 2 standard Maths but struggled with anything other than spoken English. Still, he's doing fab at 25, so it doesn't matter now

We don't set year 7, we very carefully look at info from primary and parents on the students. Not academic information but reports on who they are, what they like, challenges they've faced, how they mix in groups, if they want to stay with certain friends etc and then teach in tutor groups for every subject. We then get to know them and assess them and begin some careful mixing in year 8 based on behaviour, personality etc. We then set them in year 9 based on our knowledge of the students and their individual needs. All teaching is adaptive so everybody is stretched and rooms are based on need and not ability.

From what I can work out DD's school set for just about everything. Over 400 kids in each year group.

They use a mix of banding test, primary reports and SAT scores to do it. (We had no SATs due to Covid so think they just used banding tests).

What is more important than sets is making sure that the school is flexible about which one they are in and open to moving around if it's not working.

DD is really good at NVR but also has SEN which particularly means she needs to have concepts explained slowly and multiple times before she gets it. Once she's got it then she's fine.

School put her in top set Maths in Y7 based on her NVR score with all the Maths scholars who were super fast and just got concepts instantly. DD was pretty miserable and hated maths. School moved her in Y8 to a set that was then too low and she was bored, so we tried another one. Finally in Y9 they found the perfect speed/teacher combo, she's keeping that one for Y10/11 and Maths is now one of her favourite subjects. Praying the Science move this year finally fits...

Ours doesn't use SATs are they understand they are bulllshit tests, that measure retained knowledge and quality of teaching, not ability.

Op what subject or subjects is this for?

Many schools set for maths from year 7, some IME for English too. One year we set for MFL (my subject) which was based broadly on the English sets and was fairly successful. Some movement was needed tho.

Is your DC is set 4 of 5 for everything? If so that's streaming not setting and not a good thing as a child may be good at English but not maths, for example.

If this is simply a maths set, and her maths SAT result was 113, that does seem strange; maybe keep an eye to see if she is finding the work too easy. But top of a lower set is often a good thing.

DDs school only sets for Maths and it was done on a mix of SATS, class work at secondary and the CAT4 tests
DD got 118 in Maths and is top set with a grade 9 target grade

My son got 115 maths which felt right for him. He got into a selective school and they tested him and put him in set 1/8. This didn't feel right and in fact wasn't as he struggled- he's now in 2/8 and much happier. In the school the top set are very mathematically gifted and he's just a bright boy who works hard and is a decent all rounder. It's important that they find the right set for pupils as the initial group really knocked his confidence.

Yes sorry maths.
Yes Parks that makes sense as 115 on sats may or may not imply being gifted and dd would definitely not be in the gifted at a selective range.
I guess like other kids she was capable of 120 (silly mistakes).
And these sats don't stretch enough like the old level 6 tests.

But shes slow.
Ours dont set for eng but may do for science which would assume also put dd low.

Almost most concerning is there seem to be no boys in set 4. Having come from a primary where boys are pushed and praised more in maths that is concerning. Though girls from primary are still almost all higher than dd. But that could be set 3?
She did do better than school expected as she hadnt been finishing till maybe apr.
And in mar they only expected her to get 106.

Maybe 4/5 is second from top - if they set with 5 the top set?

I know one school that tried names not numbers. So Dickens, Kents, etc for English....but the kids talked about it to try and work out which was which and it made even more of a song and dance about it, so they reverted back.

Are you sure she is set already for maths? At my school we would do a baseline assessment with them and use that + SATs to put into sets in a a couple of weeks.

It would be a quite unusual school for there to be be three full classes of kids with SATs results higher than 113 above her.

109 in Maths SAT... went into Set 1 of 4. Has maintained that throughout Yr7 into Yr 8 (its reviewed regularly at their school, mixture of work ethic and test scores).
Hwr school uses SATs as a starting point for the Science/Maths/computing set, but then teacher assessment.

I think DD's school used SATS as aguideline, but they only set for English at first then English and maths in year 8. All the other subjects were mixed ability. DD did her SATS in 2011 so they were levels rather than the numbers you have today so I don't know what 113 means. Back then levels 1 - 3 were below average, level 4 was average and level 5 was above average. They hadn't invented level 6 then.

Ours don’t set until Christmas for maths and English, not sure why. I’d have thought that with a GD score, your child would’ve been in top set.

My son got 116 and full marks in the year 2 ones.
Hea got a tutor who says hes working about 3-4yr ahead
Hes gone to a state comp with 4 sets, is 116 enough for top set? Hes very competitive qnd loves maths. He did Uk math challenge and got to gold x

Same and they also did CAT tests as soon as they arrived at secondary

They were told it was set 4 of 5 and 1 is top.

Really didnt expect setting before any work. And they havent done any maths since may.

parents werent told either but i know a letter went out last year.
Dd did do 'badly' at ks1 with 102. But imo her school choose not to push at ks1 so make more progress. So at 6.11 she had never seen a ks1 sats paper. (Sister.has just.got 111 at ks1 and isnt actually better just was older and i showed her a few papers.)

Personally i would test kids on the harder stuff like ratio or algebra etc as would think thats more an indicator of potential for ks3?

Its likely an error but does sound possible they may have considered other factors

If they now just test with ks2 arithmetic paper they will have even more kids trying to cram into top sets?

If you're worried, just drop them an email asking for the rationale due to her SATs results. They should be able to explain.

👍

DS1 got very good SATS results but my kids' secondary school doesn't set in Key stage 3, even for Maths - something that's frowned on by many more middle class parents and is I think a significant reason why this school is undersubscribed and underappreciated in our borough. They do use Maths IT programs to differentiate Maths work at school and home. But they did tests to determine options for Triple or Combined Science in year 9, and two rounds of Mocks in GCSE subjects to confirm entry levels and see where students could work for better grades where needed. So DS1 got his predicted top grades in Maths and Science and I think his teachers did help him to improve on mock grades in all his other subjects (mostly written questions and essays). It must have been hard work for the teachers but DS1 was very happy there and wished he could have stayed for sixth form (there isn't one).

I also don't think predicting GCSE outcomes from SATS tests is particularly helpful, and that teachers will get much more idea in year 7, and possibly later. Streams and sets are popular with parents who think their kids will be in the "top" classes or can still do well with support, but some students are going to lose out by not having a chance to reach potential. One of DS2's primary school friends has autism and needed speech therapy in his early years, and was nearly put in a lower set for Maths at a different secondary school - luckily one of the teachers realised that his Maths ability should mean he is in a higher set.

DS2 was in year 6 at the start of COVID, he probably would have done OK in SATS though I think that the whole system of tests is very problematic, and many of my sons' classmates would have benefited from more time to gain confidence in Maths, reading and writing (and for some who came to live here from non English speaking countries in the middle of the primary years, school being able to help them with that too)

DS2's experience has been less happy but I'm hoping now he's starting in year 10 that it will be better as GCSE options and higher/foundation levels mean there will be less of the problems he complained about lower down.

I taught in one school where we had to do this. We also had quite a lot of kids coming in from abroad who had next to no English but were very good at maths. Our solution was that they went into the right set for maths, and the E2L teacher supported the bottom English set in the top half.