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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

GCSE Eng grade 5 - worth re sitting for future uni application?

59 replies

Maneattraction · 28/08/2023 06:45

DS was predicted a strong 7, 8 if lucky.

He got a 5. School have seen both the papers, the Lit is close to the boundary, but the Lang is not. He has done well in other subjects.

I have also seen the Lang paper and compared it to a mock paper he had marked. They aren’t massively dis similar, but the mock was given a strong 7 and the exam a 5. 90% of his friends are in the same boat with a significantly lower actual grade compared to mock. It’s a bit irritating as it looks like the has been mock has been graded way too generously. I can’t change that though.

I think he should re sit Lang as the uni courses he has his eye on require a 6 in Eng Lang. School said don’t bother, you’d have to declare the resit (I don’t have a problem with that) and pick a uni course that doesn’t need a 6 or above. Also, some unis don’t accept a resit at all.

Does anyone have any experience
of resitting and can advise if it makes a difference or not.

Other grades are 8/7s
and 2x6s

OP posts:

TeenDivided · 28/08/2023 07:02

Interested, what uni courses are specifying Eng Lang needs to be at grade 6? This is the first time I've seen it mentioned on these boards.

The problem with resitting is it takes away focus from the A levels.

Original poster

Maneattraction · 28/08/2023 07:21

Economics at LSE

or any joint honours with Economics at LSE.

The 2 x 6s are 1 mark from a 7, so they are going to be remarked, although I’m aware they may go down and not up.

Economics at L’boro. Need a 6. MAY take a 5.

There are plenty that require a 6, so he really has limited choices
with a 5 from what I can see.

OP posts:

clary · 28/08/2023 07:30

I’ve not looked in detail at requirements for economics, but I do know anecdotally that econ at LSE is a tiptop popular course. Friend’s lad didn’t get an offer there with A level grades in hand of A-star AA. Obvs there may be other reasons but I’ve heard and seen similar stories.

Will he get all A and A star at A level? Sorry if that sounds harsh but econ is having a moment. Where would accept a 5 in Eng? Agree that a resit might take away from A levels and they need to be the focus.

TeenDivided · 28/08/2023 07:44

clary · 28/08/2023 07:30

Agree. Requirements for Economics at LSE are v. high. Friend's DS missed out because although he got 2 A star and 2 A, he didn't get an A star for FM.

However I just checked Warwick and they also require a 6.

I can see it might be worth re-sitting, but you would want to be confident he'd improve. If staying at the same school would you have confidence in them if they over predicted before? Also note if it takes away focus from his A levels, he may end up with the 6 but without the A stars ...

Original poster

Maneattraction · 28/08/2023 07:48

He is taking the subjects he got 8s for at A level. He would like to think he would get A or A*, but there are no guarantees.

Maybe he needs to adjust his aspirations.

The re sit would be Nov, how intense are A levels for those first 3 months?

OP posts:

clary · 28/08/2023 07:52

I’m assuming A level maths and FM. He needs to hit the ground running for sure.

My ds got 8 in maths and a B at A level (tho that was all he needed so maybe he eased up). He was glad he changed his mind re FM.

Do your son’s teachers think he can gain a top grade at FM? And agree with @TeenDivided re over marking of Eng at current school (if he’s staying there obvs).

NoHillsHere · 28/08/2023 08:01

I would say resit. There's a November opportunity, so he can get it out of the way quickly.

To all those who are surprised by the requirement, the very top universities often specify a 6 in English even for STEM courses. It's a conversation I had with a couple of very arrogant boys a few years back who were a nightmare to teach. They openly thought that English didn't matter ('because I can read and write') and put all of their efforts into maths and physics. I researched which universities would require a 6 in a vain attempt to make them less obnoxious motivate them.

fleur89 · 28/08/2023 08:02

Definitely resit. Worth it and easier to do now than further down the line when combining with A levels finals etc

fleur89 · 28/08/2023 08:03

Note - I resat a further maths module and doing so literally was what swung it to get me into my uni when the time came.

TeenDivided · 28/08/2023 08:09

If resitting, I'd be tempted to get a private tutor.
Even if the school runs resit sessions, they may well be aimed at getting to the magic 4 grade, not a 6.

(Edit for typo)

BeyondMyWits · 28/08/2023 08:18

Would agree with pp, get a private tutor now. Prices will only go up, and availability down... 8 to 10 weeks of intense attention and hard work and they should get up to speed.

We did this covid A level year when marks were teacher given. Dd needed a (2 grades) higher mark in Chemistry. £800, a lot of hard work, and she got her grade and a place at her uni of choice.

OvaHere · 28/08/2023 08:18

In most circumstances I'd say not to bother and focus on the A levels but if he's set on Economics and it's a standard thing to ask for a 6 at GCSE then I think it's worth it.

I agree with others about paying for tutoring for a couple of months to get him back up to speed.

Prepare him for the fact it could be a near miss again though because out of all the subjects English seems the hardest to predict with many of our DC being in a similar situation to your son. I believe Nov resits will have a different set of grade boundaries too.

DaisyWaldron · 28/08/2023 08:20

I hadn't thought of resitting, but might look into it for DD. She got a 6 in language and 7 for literature, but that rules out Glasgow School of Art who want a 7 in language.

Original poster

Maneattraction · 28/08/2023 08:24

He seems to be good at Maths, and school have no issue in telling him he’ll be aiming to get A/A*. He has already been looking at Maths A level work, beyond the bridging work. He has not done that for the other subjects thou, just done the bridge work.

@TeenDivided To be honest I’d have little to no faith in the school with the re sit for Eng Lang, but we would pay for a tutor. DS is aware we will do this. I am still quietly seething over the mock that I believe was too generously graded. Gave him false interpretations of what a 7 looked like. There are a few kids in his year who now have had their hopes of medicine/vet scuppered due to the low Eng grades.

@NoHillsHere there was some immediate pushback when I mentioned a re sit with almost those exact words you quoted, but he has reflected on that and back tracked and said it was a bit of an arrogant thing to say.

OP posts:

fleur89 · 28/08/2023 08:25

Yes agree on tutor too, I had a tutor once a week for a term

OvaHere · 28/08/2023 08:35

DaisyWaldron · 28/08/2023 08:20

I hadn't thought of resitting, but might look into it for DD. She got a 6 in language and 7 for literature, but that rules out Glasgow School of Art who want a 7 in language.

I didn't realise that. That's DS out too if that was somewhere he wanted to study. He got an 8 in Art but a 6 in Lang.

It's kind of annoying. I realise it's probably a highly sought after place and this is how they cut down the numbers. They have all this stuff about widening participation and diversity on the website but even if you have an amazing art portfolio and high art grades you can't apply because you don't have a 7-9 at GCSE English. I suspect that does anything but widen participation.

mylittleprince · 28/08/2023 08:37

I'd resit and get him a tutor.

I know you may have to declare it and if so I feel if he does well in a resit he could use a line in his PS to address why he chose to do so.

Russooooo · 28/08/2023 08:40

I’m an English teacher. Over-prediction has been a problem this year because lots of schools used 2022 grade boundaries, but this year’s were closer to 2019.

If he chooses to resit, get a breakdown of his marks for each question this time and a copy of his papers (free from edexcel, not sure about other exam boards) and work relentlessly on the skills he got the lower marks for.

For most pupils, cracking the writing section (worth 40 marks on each paper) is key to moving grades up. For others, establishing whether they’re supposed to be analysing or evaluating (and what that means in an English context) is crucial. A decent tutor will be able to support with that, but while you find one (and for the next two weeks before a-levels start), he could already be getting started with Mr Bruff / text books etc.

I hope that helps.

TeenDivided · 28/08/2023 08:51

@Russooooo I’m an English teacher. Over-prediction has been a problem this year because lots of schools used 2022 grade boundaries, but this year’s were closer to 2019.

Genuinely asking. Why on earth would they use 2022 boundaries when everyone knew we were going back to a 2019 grade distribution?

PerpetualOptimist · 28/08/2023 08:54

I had a DC who did not click with Eng Lang and Eng Lit but was good at fact-based humanities like History, as well as numerical subjects (possibly like your DS?). Focusing on the mark scheme in Eng Lang was beneficial as they could use their analytical side to engage in 'what do I need to do to accumulate the points'.

Whilst some very competitive Econ courses require a 6 in Eng Lang (as well as stellar A level grades), Econ courses at, say, U of Bath, Birmingham, Exeter, Lancaster, Manchester and Nottingham do not (if I have read the reqs correctly). If he gets his Eng Lit upgraded to a 6 then the door is open to Leeds. So it is important that everything is kept in perspective, particularly if he resits and does not attain a 6 or above.

Russooooo · 28/08/2023 08:57

@TeenDivided Genuinely asking. Why on earth would they use 2022 boundaries when everyone knew we were going back to a 2019 grade distribution?
No idea. We didn’t, but some schools definitely did.

theresnolimits · 28/08/2023 08:58

I’d resit. Those few extra months make a huge difference especially to boys (esp summer born boys).

Look at his paper to see where he missed marks. I agree with PP that there are lots of marks to be picked up on the writing sections ( AQA Eng marker here)

I’ve also said on another thread that I think the issue with English grades this year is not marking but over prediction by teachers.

TeenDivided · 28/08/2023 08:58

Russooooo · 28/08/2023 08:57

Talk about setting students and their families up to be disappointed!

CeliaHasToes · 28/08/2023 09:00

@Maneattraction just so you are aware, LSE is 70% international students so the chances of getting in are slim at best.

Which exam board is the English Lang paper? I would go for a November resit purely because it will all still be relatively fresh in his head. But I would probably get a tutor and look at past papers with him now. Go question by question and check the mark scheme to see if he knows what they are looking for and what they award marks for. If there is a narrative have elements of that ready to go, really good descriptions of weather or places. Mine did Educas English Lang whereas I think most do AQA. Mine had 4 narratives already to "produce" in the exam but then Educas has very wide narrative titles like The Choice, The Mistake so easily adaptable.

Knowing what they are looking for using the mark scheme can make a huge difference to grades. As an adult it was easy for me to see this and help Ds understand where the marks come from. Also see the examiner's report on the paper too. Best of luck.

Russooooo · 28/08/2023 09:04

Just thinking about it a bit more, for staff who’ve been teaching for less than five years, this is their first ‘normal’ year of results. With recruitment/retention being what it is, many departments will be made up of predominantly inexperienced staff. Theoretically, there should be a more experienced HOD to pull back those predictions, but it’s not unusual to be promoted within the first 3-4 years. There might not be anyone in the department who knows what a ‘normal’ 7/8/9 looks like, hence over predictions. It’s going to take a few years to fully reset after covid.

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