GCSE Eng grade 5 - worth re sitting for future uni application?

[Maneattraction]

DS was predicted a strong 7, 8 if lucky.

He got a 5. School have seen both the papers, the Lit is close to the boundary, but the Lang is not. He has done well in other subjects.

I have also seen the Lang paper and compared it to a mock paper he had marked. They aren’t massively dis similar, but the mock was given a strong 7 and the exam a 5. 90% of his friends are in the same boat with a significantly lower actual grade compared to mock. It’s a bit irritating as it looks like the has been mock has been graded way too generously. I can’t change that though.

I think he should re sit Lang as the uni courses he has his eye on require a 6 in Eng Lang. School said don’t bother, you’d have to declare the resit (I don’t have a problem with that) and pick a uni course that doesn’t need a 6 or above. Also, some unis don’t accept a resit at all.

Does anyone have any experience
of resitting and can advise if it makes a difference or not.

Other grades are 8/7s
and 2x6s

(That ^^ was for @TeenDivided btw)

A department full of less experienced teachers makes sense @Russooooo

But on the other hand, the fact that the awarding of grades this year (in England) woukd be going back to the 2019 pattern has been out there in the real world media on and off ever since it was announced, let alone in 'education' media. Surely no-one with any involvement in teaching at GCSE A level could have failed to know this?

I guess an inexperienced department may not fully understand how 'good' an answer needs to be for higher bands, so may just over-mark in general?

It’s more complicated than just moving the boundaries though. The amount of top grades have been reduced back to 2019, which have pushed some papers into 7 and 8 and applied downward pressure onto 6 and 5 so that the distribution curve is aligned.

Two years of inflated grades has also skewed perception of what was needed.

I can see that being a factor to some extent . Quite a few teachers at our school are early in their career and joined in the last 5 years. From what I gather experienced teachers are more expensive and are leaving the profession in droves so faced with budget cuts you could end up with a larger ratio of less experienced teachers than is ideal.

Possibly many haven't taught anywhere else which I could see might skew the picture of what 'most able' looks like. This is without factoring in the retention issues and the number of supply teachers they've had to use.

Our school doesn't draw from an affluent area, there's pockets of it but overall it doesn't fall into the so called leafy suburbs of state schools. It doesn't have a sixth form and realistically only a smallish percentage of the students end up at university.

The bar set for most able will look different there than it does at some other schools. Which isn't to knock any of our DC's achievements but I know that when DS joins his sixth form college in a couple of weeks his starting point will be towards the lower end of able. A lot of students will be coming from the area's grammar and private schools and also the better performing state schools.

The college has a reputation for excellence so theoretically this is his chance to make the most of a more stable teaching environment and benefit from it but he will have to hit the ground running. It's going to be interesting to see whether the college can get the best out of students that have a similar profile to DS.

The thing is (sorry, going off tangent here from OP), but if pupils were sitting 2019, 2021 and 2022 papers as mocks/question practice, what boundaries could teachers use to assess their marks other than what was published? I presume there was no guidance of '120/200 would have achieved a 7 in 2022, but in 2023 it will be a 5' (or whatever - I've not used actual marks to illustrate). For some subjects, the 2019 boundaries were lower than they were this summer. Add in any subjects that may have had curriculum reform, and really, the teachers were flying pretty much blind, I presume?

And I've got skin in the game on this - DD achieved A star BB at A Level, but was expected A star A star A. Likewise DS came under on a couple of his GCSEs. I don't believe the teachers are to blame.

I would say it's a no-brainer to resit. Aside from LSE, as others have said there are other top-tier and other strong unis where the 5 would be a problem.

DS was the 2020 debacle and got given a 5 for GCSE (I bore the world on this but not all CAGS were overly generous. DS was a relative scally in a private school and was largely a grade down, including getting a 6 in the subject he's now doing at uni 🙄)...Anyway back to English, we didn't immediately view it as a problem but looking closely at the good uni requirements, it became clear the 5 was an issue (particularly in the context of the high grades overall). So he then resat Eng in November of Yr 13, with, by his own admission, no work, and got a 6 (annoyingly only a couple of marks off a 7 so some prep world have been worthwhile!) So UCAS will have updated with that revised GCSE grade in the January and he got offers from all his unis - 3 of which had specified they needed a 6.

So my DS' overall grade profile will be lower than yours but even in that context, the resit was definitely worth doing.

I had no idea a lot of courses at Uni specified a 6 in Eng Lang. I've paid more attention to the fact he was really disappointed in his Eng Lit grade but it seems like I should be grateful he got a 6 in Lang which by going by mocks/classroom work he appeared to be not as good at!

Can I ask whether people would also recommend resitting for a 5 in English Lit? DD was always predicted 8/9 and obtained this in mock etc so it was a real surprise. Everything else is 7-9 (inc Eng Lang) and she is planning STEM A-levels. We're getting the paper back but if it is a clear 5 then I was thinking we'd just chalk it up to experience but reading this I am wondering about re-sits.

You can only resit Lit in the summer series, and unless it's a subject of personal interest, I don't think I would bother.

I wouldn’t bother with the Lit. If they’re doing STEM people will just assume Lit wasn’t for them.

Also that requires a lot more revision than Lang IMO.

I would say no unless the extra study on top of A Levels will be a breeze for her. Going by this thread if it was Eng Lang it would be worth it but if she goes on to STEM at uni then I can't imagine GCSE Lit mattering very much.

Will doing a resit damage her focus on her A Levels? That's probably the key question.

Thanks v much. Sounds like we're right just to move on from the lit. She's upset about it as she'd a voracious reader and had always done really well in the subject but there we go.

I understand that. DS is really disappointed too as he considered it one of his top subjects. We've asked for a review because he was 3 marks from a 6 but if it comes back unchanged we'll just move on.

There are some maths courses at uni that require a 6 in english language
I don't think eng lit is relevant

Argh and I was so happy my son had got a 5 in Language (obviously had hoped for better, expected probably a 6 but thought a 5 was ok as not English focussed for the future) and now panicking, I hadn’t realised this at all! His school are making him resit English lit already to get at least a 5 as its an IB school and they do English lit as one of the subjects and he somehow got a 3 (to be fair he did not put enough work into this subject specifically I know as was spread quite thin). Did very well in maths and science type subjects. He isn’t sure what he wants to do for the future yet but something like economics isn’t out of the question. And planning to do economics in sixth form. But don’t think he can manage 2 resits as well as making a solid start in sixth form subjects.

OP in your situation then yes I would go for a resit I think.

Another one agreeing with a November resit with a decent tutor.

I'd counsel a bit of caution over likely A level grades, an 8 for Maths usually translates to a B at A level. The school seems a bit gung-ho with its predictions so make sure he has plans B, C and D and works very very hard from the get-go!

DC's school spent the whole of the GCSE years (one child pre Covid) telling the students that the grade boundaries varied from year to year, and just because your marks on a past paper would have been a grade x in that year, does not mean that it will be a grade x in your year. And that the best thing you could do was simply to try to get as many marks as possible.

Their mocks results were given as percentages on the paper. The school tentatively said that this might translate to a grade y, but it would depend on grade boundaries.

Sounds like this message is not universal across the board. And perhaps should be.

To echo @titchy's observation re: step up from GCSE to A level Maths, noblegiraffe posted info in 2020 showing the interconnection between 2017 GCSEs and 2019 A levels (last pre-pandemic 'pairing') for Edexcel Maths. Whereas 81% of those achieving 9 in GCSE went on to secure A or above at A level two years later, only 36% of those achieving an 8 at GCSE did so (if I have read the data correctly).

An 8 at GCSE Maths is a fantastic achievement and a great springboard for securing excellent grades at A level but it is not a racing certainty so OP will need to be cautious of the school's rhetoric about likely A level grades (and/or DS's possibly assumptive interpretation of what has actually been said). DS will need to step up from day one and that needs to be factored in any decision regarding resit.

It also means it is sensible to have in view Econ courses that are not restricted to the likes of LSE, Warwick etc even if some of his peers are possibly talking about those destinations to the exclusion of others. As I posted above, there are many, many very good unis offering Econ with a 4 or 5 grade requirement in Eng Lit.

I do actually believe it’s the school and over egging the mocks. For a significant amount of kids from that school to get 2 grades under predicted I can’t see what else it can be. All their papers couldn’t have been sent to the same marker?

They have been advertising for a head of English for a while if that makes any difference. I would say that they are a mixed teaching group in terms of experience.

We are heavily learning towards the Nov re sit. I will talk to him about it a bit more, I don’t want him to overdo it and be overwhelmed, so he needs to say the moment he feels it starts to become too much.

DS is stewing on the grade and has emailed the teacher and asked her how come the mock was worth 7 and the exam 5 as they both look reasonably similar in terms of ability. I don’t know if she will answer. But I guarantee DS will find her next week and ask in person.

School have made no social media announcements about the GCSE results. They normally post stacks of info and pictures every year. They had a huge amount of posts about A levels on results day. 🤔

I had already been eye up Uplearn, so will definitely go with that.

I agree about managing expectations for the A level grades! B is probably more realistic.

I don’t think many, my DS included, appreciated that a lower Lang score WILL affect your uni choices going forward even if you aren’t doing anything you feel is related to English.

I am going to be more clued up with the next 2 DC for GCSEs. I’ll probably be known as ‘that’ parent.

I’m more in favour of managing his expectations.

He was predicted a 7 in English, so it was unrealistic to think he’s going to get into the #1 school for Economics in the U.K., which also happen to be in the top 10 in the world for Economics which is also one of the most competitive courses in existence.

There’s no point resitting for him to get that 6 or 7, he’s just not realistically going to go to LSE for Economics. That’s an aspiration for the kids that have 9s across the board in the core GCSEs English/Maths/Science and the A* and As to match.

A levels are MUCH harder than GCSEs. Tons of kids get a 9 in GCSE maths and a B in A level Maths.

Your DC is still very intelligent and hardworking, the fact this year will be known to be a harsh year for grades will work to his advantage as his entire cohort will be in the same position.

I’d just press on and have him cast his net wider to other RG and Ancient Unis that offer excellent Economics courses rather than keep him going for LSE. It’s too much pressure to put on him to keep pushing the #1 school in the U.K. and could drag down his A level grades.

An excellent Uni for Economics is Durham. No min grade on GCSEs, and it’s in the top 10 schools in the U.K.

Link if it helps.
https://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/courses/details/economics-ba/54978276#entry_requirement

I don't think this is the school's fault OP. There are all sorts of graphs, geeks and nerds online explaining how English this year has seen top grades fall far more than eg maths to 'readjust bell curves'. Even if the school was using 2019 grade boundaries to mark, it's a flawed system as they shift so much from year to year in English. Our school rank orders everyone and then applies grades (huge year groups so it does work) and this seems a good deal more accurate, bar a few outliers who seem to have not found themselves in their usual place in the rank order in real results. That's all that is done in exam marking - examiners mark to criteria , not grades. In another year your DS's mark could easily be a clear 7.

That aside, pending remark - put in for a November resit. If he is able he will be successful. In all likelihood.

Resit no question, won’t do him any harm.